By Lauren Russell, CNN
(CNN) - While most of the nation's students are enjoying summer break, teachers in a handful of states are studying – not their fall curriculum, but how to take out an assailant.
In Ohio, Buckeye Firearms Association, a gun rights PAC, has launched a program to educate teachers on how to take down a gunman.
"We were mocked when we first said we wanted to teach this class," Jim Irvine, president of Buckeye, said. "People doubted if we could fill the class."
States tighten, loosen gun laws after Newtown
Yet more than 1,400 school staff members applied for the 24 spots first offered in late December, he said.
Interest in arming teachers has grown among some school staff, gun rights groups and lawmakers in the aftermath of the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in which 20 students – ages 6 and 7 – and six adults were killed in Newtown, Connecticut, on December 14.
Photos: Teachers pose with their guns
Gun rights groups have sponsored classes for teachers in a number of states from Texas to Ohio.
In the six months since the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, legislators in at least 30 states have proposed laws allowing teachers and other school staff to carry firearms on primary and secondary school campuses, according to Lauren Heintz, a research analyst at the National Conference of State Legislatures. In most states the bills have failed, but laws have been enacted in South Dakota, Alabama, Arizona, and Kansas. Texas, which already allows staff to carry firearms with school approval, passed two new laws creating a "school marshal" program and addressing training teachers.
Some bills proposed in the past six months require only that the school employee have a concealed-firearm permit, but many of the bills include training provisions. For example, South Dakota's new law requires law enforcement-approved training for every appointed school sentinel.
The week after Sandy Hook, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told the media that all schools in the United States should have armed security, and an NRA-backed task force proposed training and arming adults at schools.
Six months since Sandy Hook: Newtown residents find their voice
"Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared?" LaPierre asked. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said.
Before Sandy Hook, no state's law explicitly permitted firearms on school campuses, though some states had exemptions, according to the NCSL.
For 12 years, Utah's concealed weapon law has permitted a person to have, on his or her person or in a secure lockbox, a weapon inside a school. As concealed firearm permit holders, they are not required to tell parents or school officials.
But in Texas and Ohio, for instance, a person must get permission from the school district to bring a concealed weapon on school grounds.
The Harrold Independent School District board in rural Texas approved a plan to arm certain staff members in 2007. Under the so-called Guardian Plan, identities of armed staff members aren't divulged. This way, a shooter can't target them, the superintendent wrote in a column for CNN's "Schools of Thought" blog after Newtown.
"At the end of the school day, we at Harrold want to know we've done everything possible to protect our children from people who are intent on harming them," David Thweatt wrote.
The Union Grove Independent School District and Van Independent School District, both in East Texas, in January became the second and third districts in the state to authorize teachers with concealed handgun licenses to carry firearms on campus.
At Colt's Connecticut factory, no apologies for arming America
Ohio allows school boards to vote on whether teachers and administrators can carry concealed weapons into schools, a stipulation that was largely overlooked until Sandy Hook. The exception has existed since at least 2008 when the law was last amended.
Dick Caster, head of the Ohio School Board Association, said school safety plans are private documents, so there isn't a list of all the school districts that have armed employees. Though not required to disclose it, a few Ohio school districts have made headlines by voting to allow teachers to carry guns. Sidney City Schools announced in March it would be arming staff, and the school board in Montpelier approved arming its custodial staff in January.
But Bill Bond, a former principal who once confronted a shooter, isn't so sure arming teachers is the answer. In 1997, a student shot eight of his peers at Kentucky's Heath High School, where Bond was principal at the time. Three of those students were killed in the shooting. Looking back, Bond said he wouldn't have wanted a gun. "It could have made the situation worse," he said. "The potential for wrongful accidental killing is greater than the potential for saving," he said about arming school personnel.
He supports having trained school resource officers on campus, but educators have enough on their plates without the responsibility of a deadly weapon, he said.
"Anytime you have divided or added responsibilities, it distracts from primary responsibilities," he said. "From an educational standpoint, I'm against it."
Bond worked 29 years in schools and has been the school safety expert with the National Association of Secondary School Principals for 12 years. He's heard talk of arming school personnel before, but it wasn't seriously considered until after Sandy Hook, he said.
"I do realize that the only thing that would have been able to stop (the shooter) was gunfire," he said, "but that particular situation is an anomaly."
He also points out that an armed educator would have had only one gun with a few rounds, while the shooter had multiple firearms and 30-round magazines.
"Teachers will hesitate and that will cause teachers to be killed, and if they don't hesitate they'll make the wrong decision," Bond said. "It's wracked with danger."
Ken Trump, a school safety consultant who runs his own firm, agrees that it's a high-risk, high-liability proposal. He thinks only a law enforcement officer should carry weapons on campus.
"There's a huge difference between saying, 'I can protect my family and my home,' versus 'I'm prepared to protect the masses,'" he said.
There's also the question of whether teachers want to carry guns. Nearly three-fourths of teachers said they would not bring a firearm to school even if allowed, a February School Improvement Network survey showed. However, the survey showed most educators believed armed guards would improve safety.
John Benner, president and chief instructor at the Ohio-based Tactical Defense Institute, has trained school resource officers for years. He taught his first class to teachers this spring.
The three-day class, sponsored by Buckeye Firearms Association, examined mass shootings and taught school personnel how to predict a killer's behavior and shoot on the run amid obstacles like narrow hallways and stairwells. Police officers and SWAT commanders help teach the course. Participants had to have a concealed weapons permit before registering.
Buckeye paid about $1,000 per teacher, which includes tuition, room and board, and ammunition. The group will cover tuition and board for the six courses offered this summer.
Benner would like to see all school employees – teachers, resource officers, administrators – learn to use firearms.
"I hate the idea of arming teachers, but we have to," Benner said. Signs and locks won't deter an attacker and police can't respond quickly enough, he said. "It's the only thing that's going to work."
Asked if training law enforcement officers to patrol schools was a better idea than arming teachers, Caster, who was the executive director for the National Association of School Resource Officers before joining the Ohio School Board Association, said it's not possible.
School resource officers are typically funded by either the school or the local law enforcement agency.
"This is what it boils down to: Can you afford to have an officer in every school?" Caster said. "It's not in the budget."
In any event, he said, emotions should not drive the discussion.
"This isn't about guns, it's about a possible tactic," Caster said. "My plea is that we have a rational, logical discussion (about arming teachers) as an additional possible tool."
There were 32 US school shootings from 2000 to 2012, or an average of 2.46 per year. That includes any school shooting, few of which were mass murders like Sandy Hook, and in some nobody was killed. The approximate number of K-12 schools in the US is 132,656, both public and private. So the odds of any particular K-12 school in the US experiencing a shooting incident in any given year are approximately 1 in 53,925. Unfortunately, statistical realities don’t quiet fears. Our brains tend to automatically overestimate the possibility of the most horrific and extreme events. That is called cognitive bias.
Gary, your intelligent approach, and reliance on statistics is a little out of place here, and wasted on most of the commenters.
This is insane! Homeschool is starting to look better and better. I'm glad I don't have kids – I'd hate to be a parent in this day and age.
So the same people that we've forbidden from using corporal punishment are now supposed to be trusted with more lethal implements? Wow.
I say No guns, no time, nowhere – except for law enforcement and military. You want to shoot people join the army, and stop shooting animals.
I think people like you who want to prevent people from having the means to defend themselves are more dangerous than the psychopaths doing all the killing.
Its is closely guarded at the secrete Tea Party National headquarters somewhere in my home state of Tejas..
This is an accident just waiting to happen. A teacher snaps and starts shooting. In response, the NRA advocates arming the students, too. Welcome to the Wild West Show ... Buffalo Bill not included. Full background checks and making firearms more difficult to get ahold of seems like a better path than this nonsense. Increased mental health spending instead of constantly cutting, cutting, cutting, then wondering why all the crazies are on the streets. This does not bode well at all.
Here's an interesting little excerpt from the Medscape website that should give us some insight into what we can expect when we introduce guns into our schools.
According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) data, between 2003 and 2007, the typical resident from the 15 states with the most guns (WY, MT, AK, SD, AR, WV, AL, ID, MS, ND, KY, TN, LA, MO, and VT) was 6 times more likely to die in a gun accident than a typical resident from the 6 states with the fewest guns (HI, NJ, MA, RI, CT, and NY). For example, although there were virtually the same number of children aged 5 to 14 years in both groups of states, 82 had died from accidental gunshot wounds in these high gun states, compared with 8 in the low gun states (Table 2).
The best to protect students in school not by teachers to have gun, why need gun in the class room. but they should have arm guard security every school. The guard job is to make sure no one bring the gun to school . Guard at check point to enter the court building, the guard at check point at the airport... guard at check point to enter feral building... why can have guard at entering school.
Money. Schools are very strapped financially as it is. Unless you can convince your legislature to pay for it it isn't going to happen.
Plus, since you said the guard would be stationed at the entrance (a known location), it wouldn't be hard for an assailant to take that guy out first.
One further point, you assume that there is a single point of entry into schools. A lot of modern schools have been built with security in mind but older schools have many points of entry. At the minimum you'd have to retrofit a lot of the entry points to emergency exit only which again costs a lot of money.
Like this would have stopped those young men from taking arms. On the other hand, when they do, they'll aim for the teacher first.
I know how to deal with the problem of violence in schools! Let's have an arms race! Yeah. As if the problem was simply guns at school.
Do people ever ask why their kids are resorting to lethal violence? Poor parenting as a result of overwork. dismal economic prospects and the rampant abuse of prescription medication as opposed to actually dealing with underlying problems.
Interesting that you cite an arms race as negative. Arms races create mutually assured destruction, which in the Cold War worked very well at keeping the US and Soviets from armed altercations. This has also worked in for S. Korea, Pakistan, and India. The concealed weapons would be considered a deterrent.
That logic breaks down when we're talking a bout unstable or a large number of people. Mutual destruction worked well when there were two powers (or several countries aligned with those two powers) with mostly rational leaders.
As more countries get nuclear weapons – especially those with less rational leaders – the mutual destruction deterrence plays less and less of a role. I think we'll be lucky to not have at least a limited nuclear exchange in our lifetimes.
Why don't they put police officer's offices in schools? They wouldn't have to always be there but a badge on the door as you walk in sure would chill most nuts.
Not a bad idea at all.
This was suggested by numerous conservatives immediately following Newton and was laughed at as ridiculous. Instead severe gun laws were passed to dis-arm law abiding, mentally stable, citizens.
I sure didn't hear this from the GOP. The only thing I have heard from the GOP is to tell teachers to carry guns.
And these are the same conservative groups that advocate cutting money from "socialized" programs in the community. Where ya gonna find the money for that, genius?
School shootings are rare; gun accidents are not rare. If teachers routinely carry guns, many more tragic accidents will occur, and many more deaths result, than if teachers and other personnel were forbidden to carry guns in school.
We don't need to put a gun in every classroom. We need to make killers think it is too dangerous to kill school children. Giving schools the ability to have trained armed guards, whether the guards are also teachers or not, will reduce the frequency of schools being chosen as killing fields. Better to have the crazies shooting up malls and theatres instead of schools.
This has to be the stupidest idea ever thought of and it's unbelievable how many people are buying into it. I bet we don't go a year before hearing about a child getting a hold of one of the guns in their purses, etc and shoots someone, or that a stray bullet goes through a wall and kills a student in another class, or a teacher open fires during an emergency and hits an innocent kid or fires at someone mentally ill and confused ( in the wrong place at the wrong time) , or a unstable individual gets in the school and finds a loaded weapon. Less than a year I bet.
I'm a high school teacher and if I find out that any other teachers in my school are bringing guns I will be looking for a job somewhere else.
what if one of the coaches already was an off duty police man, coming in after work?
And what if my Aunt Bessie won the lottery. I'd have a rich aunt!
Whats next ? missile in every home.. Its official this is a country led by morons.
Yes, because a missile and a fire arm, used by a responsible citizen who has logged training, as well as school shooter training, are exactly the same thing!
Please use a reasonable argument.
now teachers will be killing their colleagues, bosses and students and be their husbands and children at home.
I am fairly certain a teacher who legally purchased a fire arm could already do this if they were so inclined. They certainly don't need permission to carry their firearm on campus as a shooter deterrent if they are psychotic or homicidal. I am doubtful that this would happen given it is not already happening on any kind of measurable level. But nice try.
Not all homicides are planned events. There are those who will plan out an attack on an individual or group of individuals. However, unstable person who would never otherwise plan an attack may use their weapon to attack others if and only if it is immediately available.
The gun industry is laughing all the way to the bank. Stop the insanity!!
OMG the profits that will be seen by arming, maybe, an additional 10k people are astronomical. The evil NRA is salivating at the prospects of selling guns to you! Oh wait...they don't sell guns...
Give me a break
They are in bed with them so same thing really.
Give the Principles those mace/pepper spray guns like they have on those bounty hunter shows. It isn't disables the attacker with non lethal force.
But then those that are gung ho with their weapons won't get the chance to do what they all want to do, kill another person legally without having to worry about going to prison. That's why they hide behind their reasoning that it's all for defense of their homes and families, the rest of us know differently, otherwise they would use non lethal weapons.
Yea, no thanks.
The biggest issue is caliber, because of the plausibility of accidental discharge. The caliber should be the fine grain pellets, that are design to knock someone down. Yes, at close range you will die. But, the bullet type would limit ricochet possibilities, and prevent long range misfires. Look if that RN in Newtown had a .22 with that bullet type she could have stopped Adam Lanza from behind the curtain.
Gina you are a moron, if you don't know anything about firearms don't open your mouth! The reason we have all these murders is because morons like you!
Pure idiocy! This is a recipe for disaster.
'mericans have ALWAYS over-reacted just like MORONS do!
What's wrong with y'all? Ever thought of thinking and solving the root cause of your fear? Of course not...that woulldn't be John Wayne enough for y'all IDIOTS!
Lol... figures a Canadian would be saying the same thing. They live in a house of matches and hope that a little gasoline will help... "more of the same please".
Ahh the country that has the great fortune to have 2 ocean borders, a border with ice caps, and the largest militarized nation on earth to the South. If only we all had such luxury.
and of course in big letters the liberal biased cnn puts "plans wracked with danger" . because cowering in fear unarmed is not wracked with danger,,,
If there were no guns, no one would need to cower in fear because no jerk would be pointing one at you just so he can feel superior.
The comment "The potential for wrongful accidental killing is greater than the potential for saving" is so bizarre and wrong. If you purposefully try to shoot someone, your chances of hitting them is so much greater than if you are trying not to hit them. Purposefully intended/placed shots will kill targets many multiples higher than just randomly placed shots. Stray bullets are randomly placed shots. The likelihood of killing is far far less than a shooter trying to kit a target. I just can't get over the ignorance and naivety of people who speak without any balanced experience.
I'm not sure how random spraying of bullets vs intentional aiming has anything to do with this. We're talking about situations where a child accidentally handles a gun or a teacher misinterprets a threat or a person in a fit of rage takes a gun away from a teacher.
How in the world can you narrow this down to the probability of single bullet hitting someone? Accidentally deaths occur all the time when children are around guns. If you have enough children around a lot of guns these accidents are going to happen quite often. It doesn't matter if each incident has a small probability of causing someone to get shot. If you have enough incidents you are going to have a lot of problems.
I can't imagine how you managed to narrow down a very complex issue to one of shooter's accuracy.
Now if you're talking about during a shooting spree then I would agree with you. We're better off having even an untrained person there trying to take out the shooter. But this hardly addresses the points that many people are making.
And even in a situation like that, something like the theater shooting could turn more deadly. In a dark confined space with many armed citizens, it could become very chaotic and easy to misinterpret who is the real threat.
Schools of course are not dark places and there would be a limited number of armed citizens but the theater scenario is still worth thinking about.
God bless the teachers but training one to fire a gun is a heck of a lot different than having a gun pointed at you or someone actually shooting in a class room. Not being critical but who is going to clean up the urine on the floor? This is the most brain dead idea i have ever heard of. Ask a veteran how they felt the first time they were fired on.
Friendly-fire happens with soldiers who are trained to be in combat situations. What's going to happen with a teacher in an unknown, hostile situation? What if they falsely think something is happening? Are the going to pull their gun?
This is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. I refuse to have an armed teacher near my kid.
So would you do away with the army because you might get some friendly fire? People like you are paralyzed by fear, and that leads only to enslavement.
And I'd argue that your the one who lives in fear, believing that arming everyone is the solution to feeling safe.
Do away with the army? Did I say that? The statement was to prove a point about trained people with guns and the untrained. Concentrate on reading comprehension.
And the counter-point is that you don't dismiss the idea of armed teachers because there is a 1% chance of accidental shooting. Perhaps you should take up your reading comprehension idea.
However, I am willing to bet you would be in favor of banning all guns because of the 1% chance of a school shooting...
And perhaps you shouldn't bet your farm on a long shot. You'll find yourself in the po' house.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." – Benjamin Franklin
When you have no thoughts of your own quote ol Ben.
I have seen thos quote so over used in the past week i could puke.
Is that Sara Palin in the pic?
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain – and most fools do." – Benjamin Franklin
As it is likely you have done nothing profound or noteworthy in your entire life, I would suggest you lay off of ol' Ben as you put it. As he is probably one of the greatest minds to have existed in the last 300 years, as an inventor, entrepreneur, and philosopher. And your qualifications for slighting him are?
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." – Benjamin Franklin
Myself and my fellow Canadians are completely shocked by the love of guns in the American society. And now to hear that teachers will be armed is beyond ridiculous and insane. What are you thinking? Teachers now have a bullseye on their forehead. God bless and God save America. A truly concerned Canadian.
what bulls eye? they are not required to keep a gun, but they can. people neednt know which teachers are the ones that have one. after training, there is no difference between a police officer and a regular person. why should police have the monopoly on force?
Dont you see you are all puppets of the NRA. It just means more and more guns, more and more death and sorrow.
no I dont see, perhaps because you haven't made any points to "awaken" me
"you haven't made any points to "awaken" me"
Maybe you should wake up, Mike's point is very clear, also police officers are fully trained on policing, teachers are not.
why don't you go back to getting high on pot? isn't that what canada thinks life is about these days?
Most Canadians including myself find marijuana use disgusting and destructive, but not nearly as destructive as guns.
It's about time that our government has done SOMETHING to empower people to protect themselves, school employees, and students. Sadly, teachers and students cannot perform their daily duties when you have to look over your shoulder everyday; in fear, of some nut bag trying to take their lives. In a perfect world, eliminating guns would be great but how can you protect someone who is not a law abiding citizen and welcomes death..."glitter and hugs" will not work (just saying). Get on board and save your life and hopefully someone elses instead of being a death statistic in someone's evil plan to leave a demented legacy of cowardice violence on more innocent people.
This is a very childish response to and much bigger and boarder issue.
Even if you think this sounds good in theory......some HS students are going to get shot, teachers are going to get shot, lawsuits will explode, school tax dollars will be drained...it will be an even more golden age for lawyers.
I'm just sick to death of these gun nuts.
You liberals are really insane. Why is it that you think that the police will always be there to protect you? Do you think that they will be there in seconds when seconds count? Or do you understand that help is minutes away when seconds COUNT? Do you not believe that YOU are responsible for YOU and YOUR FAMILIES safety? Do you trust the government to protect you? Do you believe that if all the good people gave up their guns, that then there would be world peace? Please help me to understand the logic that you believe that all people are inherently kind, until they possess a firearm? Because here in the REAL WORLD, there are evil people everywhere, the police with the GUNS are minutes away when your life depends on them being there in seconds, regardless of you disarming the law abiding citizens, there will always be people who are inherently evil and hell bent on doing evil things. No matter their choice of device, they are committed to doing people harm, and unfortunately, but truthfully, the only way to stop a madman on the warpath, is to be armed with knowledge, be aware of your surroundings, and understand that YOU are responsible for YOUR SAFETY. Nobody else can or will guarantee your well being when something terrible happens. Only you can make the choice to defend yourself, or just lie there and take it...what will you do? I will fight for my life because it IS WORTH LIVING! If you do not feel like your life is worth living, then I suggest that you do some soul searching and figure out why you are here on this earth, at this time, and what you can do to be a more productive member of society and a helping hand to your common man.
It might be better to only allow teachers that have military training to carry guns as the regular teacher will panic if confronted...except for that whole PTSD thing.
There's no doubt in my mind that having more armed personnel in schools would reduce and limit the scope of Newtown type tragedies. But we're really missing the point when we concentrate too much on these mass killings and too little on the accidental and more pedestrian gun violence. Are we trading one or two incidents where 10-20 people are killed for an increase in the more normal type of gun violence in our schools? An child could accidentally obtain access to the weapon and kill someone. An angry student force the gun out of the teacher's hand and use it against the teacher or other children. A stressed out teacher with a gun could snap. An armed teacher could accidentally discharge their weapon or misunderstand and situation as being more dangerous than it really is. We know with enough armed people in schools these things are going to happen and I fear that the death toll will be much higher than what we have today.
But why do the teachers need to be armed? Are tellers and bank managers armed? No, they hire security guards who are armed. If we can't even trust cops to keep control of their guns, how is a teacher going to a) keep control of their gun but b) have it "at the ready" if a shooter shows up?
We simply are not willing to afford the cost of having security guards in every school. As for the rest of your post, I'm in agreement. I'm not sure if you only read my first sentence and disagree or if you were agreeing with my post.
Allow them to carry nunchucks to deal with rowdy students.
May good citizens step up and carry a gun, to protect their fellows and neighbors in schools, in malls, in theaters, or where ever they need to stand up to defend, and let's help them and thank them for taking up the duty to protect.
So the next time bad stands up with a gun, someone knocks them down with a gun.
Thinking the bad guys with guns don't need to be stopped or won't be there, just makes for more victims and is extremely irrational thinking that will get the next victim killed. You anti-gun t00ls own that, and you directly own the lives that are lost to inevitably follow.
If you really want to save lives, make it PC and supportive for duty-bound heroes to be on hand and carrying a weapon to stop the next victim from falling to the bad guys.
It's about time.
The NRA trolls on this page are evidence of why we can't have a reasonable informed discussion regarding firearms. "Everybody carrying a gun" is neither the intent of the second amendment nor the condition of a civilized society. Just look around the globe at places where guns are an everyday item: Yemen. Somalia. Afghanistan. All failed states, all fractious tribal cultures. See any parallels?
The right wing nuts were led to fight the wrong battle–we could have had better controls preventing the mentally ill from getting guns and limit the obscene firepower on our streets; some of that was in place with the Brady bill and was actually removed due to corporate lobbying–they should have focused their outrage on the data collection begun under Bush (yes, it was known then). Now if the 'gummint' wants to 'come for their guns' it won't need a background check registry, they just need to mine the data they already have.
Good points. Also, about the mentally ill, remember when the NRA folks were screaming about better mental health programs. We all knew most didn't really mean it considering they were the ones who dismantled the programs we used to have and in general wouldn't want to pay for them. The mental health issue was just a tactic to change the subject while these shootings were in the public's consciousness.
Good points? are you fricken serious.
It takes a real Jackarz to talk like you. Liberals like yourself would rather let children be slaughtered than stand up and protect them. You sissy minded people are what is destroying this world. 26 people including kids died because they were NOT protected in any way. I carried a gun for 45 years with 30 of them as a LEO. These catastrophes could be lessened by having armed teachers. When someone comes in like the sicko in Connecticut there is NO time to call the police and have them arrive in time to stop the slaughter. I would rather be a teach with a gun in a position to defend myself as well as the children than to stand there with my thumb up my aaazrrs like you liberals than just stand there and do nothing and die. Use your tiny brain for once in your sorry life.
Again, just look at the evidence we have in our world. Most of the heavily armed countries are very violent places where a person has little personal liberty. That was the point he was making and the evidence shows it to be true.
I feel really bad for the kids a Newtown but I wouldn't trade having 100 kids killed by accidental or more pedestrian school shootings to save 10 that are killed in a mass shooting.
It takes a real Jackarz to talk like you. Liberals like yourself would rather let children be slaughtered than stand up and protect them. You sissy minded people are what is destroying this world. 26 people including kids died because they were NOT protected in any way. I carried a gun for 45 years with 30 of them as a LEO. These catastrophes could be lessened by having armed teachers. When someone comes in like the sicko in Connecticut there is NO time to call the police and have them arrive in time to stop the slaughter. I would rather be a teach with a gun in a position to defend myself as well as the children than to stand there with my thumb up my aaazrrs like you liberals than jsut stand there and do nothing and die. Use your tiny brain for once in your sorry life.
Your post is really insulting. It's not about whether we want to stand up to protect children. It's about whether we would want to make the situation worse by having weapons in proximity of young kids. I can only guess that you can't address the points we're making so you have to change the subject and insult us.
Putting a gun in the classroom isn't going to change anything but it will automatically put a firearm in the classroom with a room full of students. Where is it going to be stored? How hard will it be to get the gun once a intruder has entered the school?
As a parent, I don't think most of the teachers ever held a gun or want to use/learn to use one and that isn't good either. Armed guards should be enough.
They better make sure and arm them with assault rifles with large magazines. This is about a ludicrous as you get but that is what the right wing in the USA has become. One black guy in office and they go insane and attack the country.
And the first time a teacher guns down a kid........
I don't even want to think about it. The solution to too many guns is not, and never will be, more guns!
Reblogged this on michaelthewriterguy and commented:
It seems as though there is momentum driving the arming of school staff. I find this to be an extreme response, but an extreme response to an extreme event. On the one hand it would provide a greater sense of protection. But it also creates an environment of fear as well. If it were to happen and every staff member (or at least more than a few) of every school had a gun of some sort with them it can the environment of learning. In a way it will now make schools a type of war zone. I find that disappointing. There has to be a better solution than arming every teacher.
Next thing u know, teachers will be assassinating other teachers that they get mad at and killing students that the teachers get mad at also!
99.99998 % of this mass shooting problem would be taken care of nicely if we as a society would just lock up the violent nut-jobs BEFORE they went off with a weapon. Instead we favor demonizing millions of gun owners who have committed no crime and limiting basic rights of law abiding people.
This administration acts like a bunch of morons the way it handles business!
Nothing is full proof. We prepare and train schools with fire and earthquake drills and still things can go sideways. Training kids and teachers in active shooter drills and counter measures s better than nothing at all. Teach kids self defense.
Seriously? Will they arm the students if in future we face mass shootings involving teachers?
Not a cogent response to be found. Teachers are not law enforcement. The issue is having multiple measures short of firearms AND adhering to them. How about defense in depth. No one gets in the parking lot without arrangements, so if the guard at the lot is shot (or not) there is ample warning to go to lock down. Yes, someone can shoot their way in, but the point is to buy time for police who are trained to shoot without kids in the background....and presumably, the police practice. Someone could climb over the school fence and get in. There is no perfect solution unless the school is turned into a prison-like facility.
We could pass some crazy law that magazines have to hold fewer bullets, which means bad guys have to stop shooting to reload, which may actually buy time and save lives. But that's a silly idea now isn't it, because it makes things inconvenient for all those hunters out there who want to mow down an entire herd of deer. Right?
Worse yet, it creates yet another issue for the police. They enter, not quite certain who or what they're up against, and encounter "somebody" with a gun. Is it a bad guy...or a teacher? It's bad enough to be entering an environment with so many potential victims and potential hostages. You can see the bad guy clearly, but behind/around him are dozens of kids...so you can't just "take a shot at him." If you need an example of this, look at the shootings in New York, where EVERY bystander injured was shot by a cop! All we're doing is adding yet another "suspect" to the scene, and sooner or later either the teacher is going to hit a kid, or the cops are going to hit the teacher. More guns is not the solution to too many guns, and never will be.
By the time the police arrived in Newtown, 6 educators and 26 children laid dead on the floor. I am not sure you are focusing on the appropriate potential horrible here.
Is this type of democracy that is put in Balkans-former Yugoslavia (Cro,Slo,Bih,Srb,etc.) ??? Classical music ?? No.
I would ask democratic countries like Austria,Sweden what they think about this ??
I'm sure they will laugh at that type of democracy that only exist across the ocean in the wild west. :)
Finally, some common sense. Arm them. Train them. Deter the bad guys from taking advantage of "gun free zones." How does it feel to no longer be the victim-in-waiting? Pretty good, right?
With this u are assuming that there are no "bad guys" among the teaches... wake up !!!
you need to wake up, you mindless liberal sheep
What kind of argument is that? Teachers have almost unfettered access to students almost every week day of the school year. In other words, access to a firearm is not going to change the rate at which children are harmed by bad teachers. Access to a firearm, on the other hand, will provide responsible and properly trained educators with the means of evening the odds against the maniacs out there who see "gun free zones" as the perfect fish in a barrel scenario.
CaptUSMC, I had two teachers in grade school that I would consider emotionally unstable. One was even sent away for a while after having a nervous breakdown. (She wasn't the one I considered threatening.) Neither would have ever considered bringing a gun to school with the intent of killing a fellow teacher or student. Nevertheless, I would not have trusted them to have a gun in close proximity to themselves. Unstable people can do irrational things when they don't give themselves time to think.
Oh absolutely... then we'll arm their soccer coaches, basketball coaches etc for after school... priests for when they go to church on Sunday... know what?? Eff it... have the ice cream man packin' heat so they are safe when they run for the ice cream truck. How does it feel to live in a totally armed society? Like pure stupidity huh?
yep. gun nuts are like drug addicts. only their drugs do a lot more harm. heaven forbid we take them away or make some element of their existance illegal.
I think yours is the typical extreme "slippery slope" argument that sheep eventually make when faced with the reality that we live in a world, full of bad people with bad intentions. I will, however, answer your question. I would rather live in a "totally armed" society than a society where only the bad guys and the government are armed. This is the difference between the viewpoint of a sheep and that of a wolf.
You know that it's much easier to get a LTC if you have a biz. Just saying.
you're kidding right? by that logic we should arm everyone wherever a massacre occurs. arm donut bakers, churches, mail carriers, the omish. the solution to gun violence is not to arm everybody. only a fool believes in this logic. how long before the headline, "student accidentally kills another student with teachers unkept gun?" get real gun nuts. and don't forget, some people become mentally ill later in life. probably a good chance an owner of a 27 thousand dollar smart gun goes nuts out there.
I never kid about firearms.
Agreed, but more "Train them, THEN arm them"... yes, it's picking a nit, but what we don't need is to increase the risk by having more untrained and armed people involved.
Excellent point. My post should have been, "Train them. Arm them." I certainly am not advocating that we simply allow untrained educators to wander the halls of our schools with firearms. By the way, Melissa Coyler is rocking that Glock in the photo, isn't she?
In most states the bills have failed, but laws have been enacted in South Dakota, Alabama, Arizona, and Kansas. Texas, which already allows staff to carry firearms with school approval, passed two new laws creating a "school marshal" program and addressing training teachers. SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
Hmmm .. John you didn't do ur homework, I am going to shoot u next time.. got it??????????????
This is the stupidest idea ever. Now , first and foremost every day, I would need to be more concerned about the security of the gun in the room, rather than the children I'm supposed to teach. I absolutely will not do this, and would not want my child in a classroom where there's a gun.
How the brainiacs who are proposing this plan suggesting that the gun remain easily accessible, yet hidden away from students? And after this, of course, some gun zealot will next claim that all students should be armed.
We're supposedly a civilized society. I don't want to live in a world in which you have to "pack heat" to go to English class. What a ridiculous idea.
It wouldnt stop every single child at sandy hook from dying. but by the time teachers in the next class room unlocked their gun, they could have probably reduced to 1/4 the number of deaths
So don't do it. But ask yourself this: Would you want your child in a classroom with a bad guy with a gun? Unfortunately, 6 educators in Newtown had to answer that question with their lives and the lives of 20 students. Thank goodness the first responders got there when they did, right?
So, you would prefer the alternative, you and your children dead. Sorry, but being dead is not a good alternative to use deadly force to protect yourself. I am not willing to die without doing everything possible to live.
I have trained thousands of people how to shoot in Africa, the Middle East, and here in the US. The one thing that I find consistent is that women can shoot! And it doesn't matter if the are young or old. I especially love the feeling of training the elderly how to use weapons. They are usually on fixed income and live in high crime neighborhoods. They couldn't defend themselves physically from a 15 year old thug. Once I teach them how to shoot a controlled pair, do a tactical reload and how to formulate a defensive plan in the home and while in public they are confident and no longer fear the predators in their neighborhoods. Guns make everybody equal, and nothing else can accomplish this feat.
For all those people who are against teachers carrying weapons, then how do we protect our children against nuts, idiots and ones like you, sit back and say Ohhhh nothing will happen, just like the normal out of touch gun control idiot. Look what has happened recently in our schools. I would rather have a well trained teacher or oretired MP or police officer in our schools than some of you oh nothing will happen idiots and on our college campuses, let trained students carry weapons, maybe we wont have another Virginia Tech. I carry, My wife carries, my kids carry and 99% of my friends carry and we are trained and dont think we wont use them to stop an idiot.
At the very least, if there are going to be guns in schools, they need to be in the hands of professionals. Law enforcement, preferably, or private security if law enforcement isn't available. A cop with a gun, trained to use it and trained to keep it from being misused, can be a source of protection. A teacher with a gun is an accident–or worse–waiting to happen.
So, a security officer with limited schooling can be trained to use a gun but a teacher with advanced degrees can not be trained to use a gun. CCW people have had a really good track record and I would expect it to continue.
If it weren't legal to sell arms to anyone, like any normal civilized country, you wouldn't have to worry that a 17 year old kid would get it's hands on a semi-automatic assault rifle with 1300 rounds of ammo in the first place. Guns have no place in a civilized society. It is no secret that that is exactly the reason Texans and other uneducated hillbillies think otherwise. Let's just ignore them.
If you think you're safer with a gun, think about the attacks on US military bases. They have guns, they have training, they are on the watch and they still die when under attack by a single attacker. Also, in the aftermath of the Boston bombing, who got killed? The armed campus policeman. Not the unarmed driver of the carjacked vehicle.
It is just dumb and also dangerous to put arms in the hands of wannabe hero's. It is just a matter of time before the first incidence of a teacher shooting the wrong kid, get killed himself by his own gun, or firing his gun in class by accident, killing some kid in the process, hits the news.
Maybe it's the result of eating too much fried food damaging brains, maybe too much suger, I don't know, but something causes southerners to stop thinking rationally.
This is going to be a HUGE accident waiting to happen. Not every teacher is a responsible person. This is crap and stupid. Why don't we just send the teachers to police academy while were at it.
We really need to get back to the basics. Let's spend money and time helping people with mental illness. Give people resources. Educattion. Then, let's make some changes to our schools so as to make them impossible to break into. If the president can have such luxuries, then I would think we have the technology and goods out there to make this a reality. Yes, all of this takes money.
If you arm teachers, i agree with others that mentioned you're actually going to see an increase in the amount of violece in schools. How can anyone guarantee the said teacher you just armed isn't on the edge or has a mentall illness?
Why don't we just hire security guards to teach – without training as a teacher. Since training isn't important for a security guard it must not be important for teachers either. Why not just hire anybody with a gun fetish and ask them to teach science, math, etc.?
Most of the schools today have lack of funds,the teachers another duty is security guard.
but no talk of actually PAYING teachers mroe? no, instead we are closing schools, ending special ed classes, and laying off staff.
Think back to ALL of your teachers... How many of them would you trust with a gun in a crisis? Ya, me neither.
i thought all you liberals all thought teachers deserved to double their salaray? doesnt sound like it
Yes, we ought to at least double teachers' salaries in order to properly compensate them for the work they do. If we're going to start arming them, though, that means combat pay.
motor – this is a voluntary program. not mandatory
"Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared?" LaPierre asked. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said."
Wayne, will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared if assault-type weapons and large capacity magazine were banned?"
Sorry i wont, if sicko's don't have guns..... Like a lot of places out there what comes after ummm car bombs??? There is one way to prevent killers from killing.... By locking up or killing the killer. There is many ways of killing people that anti gun people overlook. A car bomb could take out the whole school not just a class room.
Do you have a LOGICAL answer?
SO, you admit that all the talk of gun control is non-sense. I agree, we should remove most of the current crop of gun control laws, especially the "NO GUN ZONES".
You id1ot, do you realize that no matter what laws you pass you will never stop violence. You will open a black market for any weapons you ban, mor0n. Connecticut had a ban and some of the strictest gun laws in the country, how did that work out?
Can't respond without resorting to name-calling?
Yes.. and what stops a teacher, who is not having a good time, to turn the gun on his/her students ?
The teacher in the next class room. Now, I am not sure why the group of posters seem to think so little of teachers. They are generally trained professionals of good moral character. (I do have some issues with the Progressive Politics that some preach, but another subject).
If your school has teachers that would resort to violence against their students, then you have a bigger problem than guns in your school.
The same thing that stops them from bludgeoning, beating, stabbing, kicking, burning, etc... their children to death every day. Teachers have nearly unfettered access to their students every school day. The presence of a firearm does not increase the likelihood that a teacher will do something horrible to one of his or her students.
I used to try to avoid name calling but then I realized people like you are too dense for reason and need a logical smack to the head.
My first reaction is that I would not allow any of these teachers to have charge of my children.
My second reaction is that I would not way any of these teachers to have charge of my children.
Not long ago a security guard left a gun in a kid's bathroom. How long before a teacher forgets to lock their desk drawer? How much distraction would it take in a classroom of 20 – 30 6-year-olds to divert a teacher's attention long enough for a curious child to pick up the weapon? How long before an outraged unstable teacher shoots a student because the gun is right there at their fingertips? How long before an angry 16-year-old takes the gun from the teacher and uses it on the teacher and fellow classmates in a fit of rage?
Total insanity – the NRA needs to be severely put in check.
wrong!!! the next step would be to get any other type of gun which is not classified as an assault weapon and still hurt 26 innocent people
Banks have armed guards, large corporations have armed guards. Its ok to protect money but forbid we do it for our kids. It takes a gun to stop a gunman. To bad they cant come up with a longer range tazer that would fry someone in body armor. I live in Wyoming we have the highest percentage of guns in a house in the USA. And nothing like this happens it can't happen.
They would get one shot before they had every person within a half a mile with a scope pointed at there head.... I can kill a deer at 500 yards.... I sure as the heck could take out a sicko at the same range. And no the chances of me hitting a kid are the same as me missing that deer wont happen.
But it is the trained security that has them not the bankers, tellers, CEO and secretaries.
That is your assumption. You know what assumptions say ASS-U-ME.
There are lots of professional people that carry, not something that anyone would be open about. There are over 500,000 such people in Texas.
You must think you are pretty cool!
"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." Winston Churchill
This will be great when the next case comes on campus with 1,300 rounds of amo, NOT!!
Will the the teachers liable for the injured/dead students if the shooting occurs in their schools for fail to protect the students? It's so obscure, and only happens in the greatest USA under the influent of the devilish NRA.
You of course know that Police have no responsibility to protect any body and kill many more bystanders than CCW people, Again, the facts sometimes interfere with what you want to think.
Regulating high capacity magazines and semiautomatic weapons bad.
Mandatory background checks for any and all firearms and ammunition sales bad.
Bringing guns into schools with small children good.
I am curious as to in which universe this makes sense.
In a universe where people value freedom.
Yes, the real world
Let's start a pool, $1 to enter, everyone picks a date when the first teacher pulls a nutty and shoots the entire class.
Funny, but unfortunately, very true.
Again, why do you trust every government employee, even ones that give guns to drug dealers (AG Holder), but you do not trust a teacher that you should know and your local school has control over. You trust a security guard that may have only a 5th grade education and 90 IQ.
I trust my neighbors (local police), friends, and myself with guns more than our federal government. I trust any of the local teachers more than a California Senator.
A desperate mistake.
It's about time. Ignorant people who believe that taking guns away from law abiding citizens are doing the nation a dis-service. Once the Arab terrorists attacked an Israeli school, killing many. After Israel armed their teachers, no more terror attacks at school. Basic logic 101.
I'm happy there is some logic on this message board, I agree 100%
Which law abiding citizen are you referring to? Name the law abiding citizen who has had their gun taken away.....Can't do it? Didn't think so; it has never happened.
What about the ones during Katrina? What about the man in NY last month? Remember the ATF killings at Waco, was over the claim that they had not paid the TAX for a fully auto rifle. (That turned out to be a false claim).
the first thing about they say to the idea of an armed security guard is its not in the budget. well you know what? put it in the budget. hire one less teacher or administrator in every school and its paid for. oh but the dreaded teachers union will never go for that, dead kids or not.
Or get rid of a few assistant coaches and other money wasting extracurricular activities.
so the guns have to be available enough for quick response, but they also need to be locked away. so, teachers need to be able to find the key, or remember the password or code under amazing pressure. or i guess the idea is that teachers would have the gun on them at all times, therefore the hope is that the teacher is a faster draw than the attacker, and isn't the first killed. this sounds like its going to work out. well done NRA.
the idea of banning guns nationwide is a totally absurd idea. police response time for any call is much too long so we must be able to protect ourselves and families. guns are the only responsible answer to the problem. criminals will always have a gun and you sitting there hoping they wont kill you is a gamble im not willing to take.
That was as good a straw man argument as I've ever seen. (In other words, it was totally stupid.)
Modern gun safes are designed to be opened by a panicked user. They open based on fingerprints so the user doesn't need a key or have to remember a code.
Reminds me of the hysteria about arming pilots. And that resulted in exactly how many accidental shootings or pilots going on a rampage? NONE. If you trust a pilot with 300 passengers and a flying bomb, or teachers to look after your child, you should also trust them to defend them. Period. I would never force a teacher uncomfortable with guns to learn to handle one and carry one, but I think any teacher that can pass the background check and has a desire to carry to protect our children should be allowed to do so. Imagine what might have happened at Columbine or Newtown had the teachers been armed.
I'm sorry, but I think you're confusing crazy with stupid. If you arm teachers or administrators, you simply make them the first target. The guys who go on these rampages typically plan them with great detail. So they have to kill a few teachers first; that's exactly what they'll do.
So, take the guns away and the bad can easily kill both teachers and students. No hurry there will be no resistance.
You argument has no merit. If schools were not known to be easy targets they would not be targets so often,
Plan them with meticulous detail? What are you talking about? Did you get this notion from a Michael Bay movie? Newtown was not planned in any detail. Virginia Tech, no detail. Joker wanna-be in Aurora, no detail. There is a common theme here, though. These are people with no apparent reason other than rage and desire for recognition going for the least protected most densely populated with helpless victim location and unleashing with a firearm. Same thing was done recently with a knife. The best way to decrease the likelihood of this happening again is to take away the helpless victim and least protected factors. It really isn't that complicated.
What a sad country this is become. Yeah good idea, let's arm all the teachers, that'll stop school shootings, even though there were armed police officers on duty failed to stop Newton AND Columbine. Arming teachers is a stupid idea, it does nothing to address the underlying root causes of why we would even need to think of arming teachers in the first place. American schools fail at math and science, but at least we're #1 in violent deaths at schools.
The police weren't on scene when the shooting started. The teachers were.
this country has totally lost compass.instead of being nice,honest and decent,people are trying to force their wills.instead of seeking security through peace,they are turning to force.dishonesty and hooliganism are coming back to bite americans.and I think it will be worse.
paranoid personality disorder seems to be running rampant here. We have a gun problem...more guns are not the answer!
anal retentive OCD control freak authoritarian problem
Is this type of democracy that is put in Balkans-former Yugoslavia (Cro,Slo,Bih,Srb,etc.) ?? Classical music ?? No.
I would ask democratic countries like Austria,Sweden what they think about this ??
I'm sure they will laugh at that type of democracy that only exist across the ocean in the wild west. :)
Only in America do people decide to solve a gun problem by increasing the number of guns.
its a people problem
This is the cornerstone of the NRAs philosophy.
My child will not be going to a school where teachers are carrying guns. This is insane, there are so many scenarios where this will prove to be the worse decision ever made, so dont even want to start listing out the reasons why this is a terrible idea. Cannot beleive they are even thinking about this.
Because I never saw the movie, Dumb & Dumber, I didn't know what it was based upon...until now!
I think the kids need guns too. What if the teacher goes crazy?
What happens when the teacher snaps?
My thoughts exactly. How long until one of the armed teachers snaps and shoots his/her own students? Worst. Idea. Ever.
I agree that teachers need to be properly trained in the safety and use of firearms and then be allowed to carry at school. I have recently returned home from a school in another state where I was in fear for my life most days. Not a pleasant experience.
Yall don't pay teachers enough for this!
Take your kids out of school and teach them yourselves. They will be smarter, be able to converse with all age groups rather than only their own age, will develop an appreciation for how the world operates (it's not like a schoolday). Then you can make your own decision when and if to teach weapon handling, not leave it to other idiots
Knee jerk reactions are usually ineffective and often do more harm than good. But THIS knee jerk reaction to the very real problems faced in schools is one of the dumbest and scariest ever. As bad as segregation, and worse than banning books, this idea guarantees that eventually a teacher will shoot and kill an innocent student.
And all it takes to see this is for everyone to take a moment and think back to our own grade school and high school days. Remember that one (ok, or more) psycho teacher who had fits of rage and actually hurt students under the guise of discipline? Then remember that one (or more) who was the campus joke because anyone and everyone could pull one over on him? Teacher #1, Mrs. T., for me was my second and third grade teacher who was angry at her husband for cheating on her and took it out physically on every boy in class. Teacher #2, Mr. E., was a high school history teacher who even before it was the norm couldn't figure out how to say no to students even when they blew up the pencil sharpener and once carried his desk to the stairs and threw it down.
Does anyone else on here remember a Mrs. T. or Mr. E. in your schools? Do we REALLY want Mrs. T. to have a gun and be allowed to use it, and do we REALLY want Mr. E. to be responsible for keeping his classroom gun from the worst students on campus? This idiocy might make those of us who fondly remember the Dirty Harry movies feel really good, like "we've done something". But it's just one more "easy way out so we won't have to think too hard to solve a very real problem."
Excellent thoughtful post. I had thought about the power hungry overbearing teachers but completely forgot about the inept ones who were just counting days until retirement.
It seems that you can not count based on your statements. "Kill a student" = bad and sad event.
"Kill 2,500,000 people" = OK in your line of thinking. Guns save 2.5 MILLION from violence every year in the US. So, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.
That has to be one of the stranger responses I've ever read. Nobody says that students shouldn't be protected from gun violence. The one thing everyone here agrees on is that they should. So next time, please think before you respond. By the way ... wasn't TopCat a cartoon character? Ahh.... I understand.
Wow,...just wow. Not even going to take the time to argue as if you believe in this as a solution you are beyond debating reason.
"Go ahead, tell me the dog ate your homework!"
Stupid! It only gets worst! Gun nuts will approve though.
Think you meant worse. Always spell check before calling someone stupid.
Wasn't calling anyone, stupid, I was calling this so called solution stupid, but thanks for taking the time for your view on the issue.
Only trolls pick up on typos like that and then base a comment on it.
Arm all the teachers. What a great idea! If you're that student or young person that finally decides it's time to kill a bunch of school kids guess who you're going to make sure you kill first?
99.9% of the time especially in a school their will be children running behind the shooter. I hope those teachers know if they fire their weapon and hits an innocent bystander they will be charged and it will happen, This is the end of school shootings and the beginning of school shoot outs.
the sad fact is there is enough money to have armed security at each school....if the admins, boards and auditors actually wanted to stop wasteless spending on BS throughout the year there would indeed be enough money to hire, thousands and thousands of dollars are just wasted on useless spending.
There were armed guards at Columbine. How much good did they do? There were also armed guards at VA Tech, and Santa Monica College. I'm not saying they're a bad idea, they just don't solve the problem on their own.
I don't know if I like this idea. I'm sure there are other ways to solve this issue then having guns in school. You don't know if one day a teacher goes bonkers and starts using it for the wrong reason. You can't count that out. You never know how a person is going to act from day to day. People who you think that can't possibly act a certain way still surprises you at times. Guns are not the issue, its the person behind the insidious acts that are. I know teachers care and love their students and want to protect them but, this is not the route to go.
This is without a doubt the stupidest idea I have ever heard. Gee, what could go wrong? How accessible would the gun be in the flash-instant timing of an emergency? And of course, with all the scurrying, screaming and mayhem, there is no chance a teacher might instead kill a kid or 2. We hear all the time about how parents keep guns locked up away from kids at ALL TIMES, except for the one time when it was accidentally left out and ooops, daddy gets it in the head by his 5 year old, or big brother lobs a bullet in fun at his baby sister. In fact, why don't we just make it mandatory for every man, woman and child to carry a gun wherever they go and we can all just have at each other and be done with it. Sheesh! Well, I guess I'll just sit back and wait for the first headline "Teacher kills 5 kids with mandate-issued firearm while trying to stop school shooter". No wonder why the rest of the world looks at us and shakes their collective head.
So, where do you think our guns are when going to WalMart or Church?
I am pretty sue that this could only happen in America.
There should be an "r" in sure!
Any state that opts in to Wayne's dream of having school teachers armed owe a responsibility to the parents of their students to fully disclose this plan well in advance of implementation. For one, I would want time to pull my kids out of those schools and relocate them elsewhere. The NRA is never going to get one of their armed teachers in front of my kids but I need time to regroup and make a move.
Should we increase their pay as this is added to their job responsibilities?
I disagree with arming them in the first place, but you're dang right they should get a pay increase. It's not bad enough that they are looked at as a daycare system and handicapped in doing their job left and right. Now, you want them to be Rambo? They better see a pay increase with this kind of nonsense going on.
Did your pay increase when you got the right to free speach? Then why should theirs when they get the right to bear arms. (No one is saying its a requirement, except the liberals when they misquote.) Maybe we should all get pay cuts, now that our 4th amendment rights have been so violated.
I can't wait for the first incident when an irresponsible gun-toting teacher leaves a loaded weapon within reach of curious students. These states will change their minds soon after the lawsuit that follows a tragic accident.
I can't wait for it either!!
It's about d@mn time we started giving a sh1t about protecting our kids. I'll never send a child of mine into some government propaganda center where a psycho can gun them down because id1ot liberals don't want teachers armed. I'm not saying all teachers should be armed but if there's a teacher who happens to be an avid shooter and is legally allowed to carry then by God they better be able to carry in that school. If you don't agree you're an id1ot and I have nothing to say to you. Don't tread on me, liberty or death.
wow, you just really didn't stop drinking the paranoid juice when it was handed to you huh? downed the whole gallon I see.
I guess you don't give a sh1t about protecting other's right to life. Keep sucking the government's sack and bending over taking it from the feds, it's gonna get you real far.
You are an imbecile, please remove yourself from the gene pool.
You're a government slave and an id1ot. I'm embarrassed to share a planet with you.
I live in Ohio. In my county there is ONE school district who has voted to give permission for ONE teacher to conceal-carry. He is ALSO a part-time police officer. I sincerely doubt he is going to walk around with his gun strapped to his side. It's called "concealed-carry". I also bet he will have it locked up in his room in a space away from kids when teaching. The other schools around have not permitted anyone to carry. Just because it is an available option doesn't mean schools are automatically going to use it. Talk to your school board members to express your opinions and get the facts for yourself.
If the gun is locked up, how is the teacher going to save lives when an Adam Lanza shows up? He gunned down a classroom full of kids in mere seconds. Now if he had fewer bullets in the magazine, and had to reload often, there might be time to save some lives - but that is too much common sense for people to comprehend.
Mental health now!
aaah what happens when a disturbed student takes the gun from the teacher?
Just arm an un-disturbed student to take him out. Problem solved, right? um, right.
Don't think they would be able to shoot as good as cops, (cough choke) I see blue on blue.
Changing the laws to allow arming of school teachers makes about as much sense as changing the laws to do away with speed limits so that people can get to and from work faster. Sounds like a great idea, but is full a disasters waiting to happen.
TracyS – that is a false strawman you have there.
Yeah HJC, it's right up there with the argument that we shouldn't pass gun control laws because they won't stop the bad guys! Laws against murder haven't stopped people from murdering each other either! But at least we can charge them with the crime and incarcerate them for what they did. It seems to me that TracyS has a valid point and people of your ilk haven't got a clue!!!
It's valid sir. All laws, even more so those that are passed in haste, have unintended consequences. Especially those that sound like a good idea. Arming ordinary teachers to react to active shooter scenarios will lead to many tragedies. Arming qualified people who train in armed conflict resolution, active shooter situations, and who train in those areas regularly, is what is needed. Just giving teachers the right to carry a gun will not solve the problem. Mental and physical preparation and regular training is the only way that having armed teachers can work. Otherwise, it's just a false sense of security, which will manifest itself in due time when the next tragedy occurs even though there were armed teachers. School boards are not going to have the time and funding for training these teachers in such tactics. There are enough former and retired cops and military people that could step into these kinds of jobs to fill security positions at schools to have the kind of response needed when these events happen, but that would cost money, and the legislators are looking for a cheap and quick fix that sounds good, but in reality accomplishes nothing.Arming ordinary teachers without the training to properly react is pointless. I've been involved with armed conflict and active shooter training for 15 years. Without that training in an ongoing basis, all that armed teachers will provide is another gun for the assailant to use.
A more accurate statement would be, best to take law enforcement off the road, because people don't obey the speed limit anyway. Better to have a few officers giving out tickets to the worst speeders than to say, let's just pack it in and give up. Better to have a few armed individuals in society, perhaps there to take out a bad guy, than to do nothing. After all, when you get in your car and speed, are you looking out for cops? Probably so. Just the idea of maybe a cop over the next bend will slow most people down.
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