By Lauren Russell, CNN
(CNN) - While most of the nation's students are enjoying summer break, teachers in a handful of states are studying – not their fall curriculum, but how to take out an assailant.
In Ohio, Buckeye Firearms Association, a gun rights PAC, has launched a program to educate teachers on how to take down a gunman.
"We were mocked when we first said we wanted to teach this class," Jim Irvine, president of Buckeye, said. "People doubted if we could fill the class."
States tighten, loosen gun laws after Newtown
Yet more than 1,400 school staff members applied for the 24 spots first offered in late December, he said.
Interest in arming teachers has grown among some school staff, gun rights groups and lawmakers in the aftermath of the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in which 20 students – ages 6 and 7 – and six adults were killed in Newtown, Connecticut, on December 14.
Photos: Teachers pose with their guns
Gun rights groups have sponsored classes for teachers in a number of states from Texas to Ohio.
In the six months since the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, legislators in at least 30 states have proposed laws allowing teachers and other school staff to carry firearms on primary and secondary school campuses, according to Lauren Heintz, a research analyst at the National Conference of State Legislatures. In most states the bills have failed, but laws have been enacted in South Dakota, Alabama, Arizona, and Kansas. Texas, which already allows staff to carry firearms with school approval, passed two new laws creating a "school marshal" program and addressing training teachers.
Some bills proposed in the past six months require only that the school employee have a concealed-firearm permit, but many of the bills include training provisions. For example, South Dakota's new law requires law enforcement-approved training for every appointed school sentinel.
The week after Sandy Hook, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told the media that all schools in the United States should have armed security, and an NRA-backed task force proposed training and arming adults at schools.
Six months since Sandy Hook: Newtown residents find their voice
"Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared?" LaPierre asked. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said.
Before Sandy Hook, no state's law explicitly permitted firearms on school campuses, though some states had exemptions, according to the NCSL.
For 12 years, Utah's concealed weapon law has permitted a person to have, on his or her person or in a secure lockbox, a weapon inside a school. As concealed firearm permit holders, they are not required to tell parents or school officials.
But in Texas and Ohio, for instance, a person must get permission from the school district to bring a concealed weapon on school grounds.
The Harrold Independent School District board in rural Texas approved a plan to arm certain staff members in 2007. Under the so-called Guardian Plan, identities of armed staff members aren't divulged. This way, a shooter can't target them, the superintendent wrote in a column for CNN's "Schools of Thought" blog after Newtown.
"At the end of the school day, we at Harrold want to know we've done everything possible to protect our children from people who are intent on harming them," David Thweatt wrote.
The Union Grove Independent School District and Van Independent School District, both in East Texas, in January became the second and third districts in the state to authorize teachers with concealed handgun licenses to carry firearms on campus.
At Colt's Connecticut factory, no apologies for arming America
Ohio allows school boards to vote on whether teachers and administrators can carry concealed weapons into schools, a stipulation that was largely overlooked until Sandy Hook. The exception has existed since at least 2008 when the law was last amended.
Dick Caster, head of the Ohio School Board Association, said school safety plans are private documents, so there isn't a list of all the school districts that have armed employees. Though not required to disclose it, a few Ohio school districts have made headlines by voting to allow teachers to carry guns. Sidney City Schools announced in March it would be arming staff, and the school board in Montpelier approved arming its custodial staff in January.
But Bill Bond, a former principal who once confronted a shooter, isn't so sure arming teachers is the answer. In 1997, a student shot eight of his peers at Kentucky's Heath High School, where Bond was principal at the time. Three of those students were killed in the shooting. Looking back, Bond said he wouldn't have wanted a gun. "It could have made the situation worse," he said. "The potential for wrongful accidental killing is greater than the potential for saving," he said about arming school personnel.
He supports having trained school resource officers on campus, but educators have enough on their plates without the responsibility of a deadly weapon, he said.
"Anytime you have divided or added responsibilities, it distracts from primary responsibilities," he said. "From an educational standpoint, I'm against it."
Bond worked 29 years in schools and has been the school safety expert with the National Association of Secondary School Principals for 12 years. He's heard talk of arming school personnel before, but it wasn't seriously considered until after Sandy Hook, he said.
"I do realize that the only thing that would have been able to stop (the shooter) was gunfire," he said, "but that particular situation is an anomaly."
He also points out that an armed educator would have had only one gun with a few rounds, while the shooter had multiple firearms and 30-round magazines.
"Teachers will hesitate and that will cause teachers to be killed, and if they don't hesitate they'll make the wrong decision," Bond said. "It's wracked with danger."
Ken Trump, a school safety consultant who runs his own firm, agrees that it's a high-risk, high-liability proposal. He thinks only a law enforcement officer should carry weapons on campus.
"There's a huge difference between saying, 'I can protect my family and my home,' versus 'I'm prepared to protect the masses,'" he said.
There's also the question of whether teachers want to carry guns. Nearly three-fourths of teachers said they would not bring a firearm to school even if allowed, a February School Improvement Network survey showed. However, the survey showed most educators believed armed guards would improve safety.
John Benner, president and chief instructor at the Ohio-based Tactical Defense Institute, has trained school resource officers for years. He taught his first class to teachers this spring.
The three-day class, sponsored by Buckeye Firearms Association, examined mass shootings and taught school personnel how to predict a killer's behavior and shoot on the run amid obstacles like narrow hallways and stairwells. Police officers and SWAT commanders help teach the course. Participants had to have a concealed weapons permit before registering.
Buckeye paid about $1,000 per teacher, which includes tuition, room and board, and ammunition. The group will cover tuition and board for the six courses offered this summer.
Benner would like to see all school employees – teachers, resource officers, administrators – learn to use firearms.
"I hate the idea of arming teachers, but we have to," Benner said. Signs and locks won't deter an attacker and police can't respond quickly enough, he said. "It's the only thing that's going to work."
Asked if training law enforcement officers to patrol schools was a better idea than arming teachers, Caster, who was the executive director for the National Association of School Resource Officers before joining the Ohio School Board Association, said it's not possible.
School resource officers are typically funded by either the school or the local law enforcement agency.
"This is what it boils down to: Can you afford to have an officer in every school?" Caster said. "It's not in the budget."
In any event, he said, emotions should not drive the discussion.
"This isn't about guns, it's about a possible tactic," Caster said. "My plea is that we have a rational, logical discussion (about arming teachers) as an additional possible tool."
Today, students, I'm going to teach you about gun safety. See my weapon here? Oops...
yes they do teach hunting and gun safety in schools. I had it in junior high 20 years ago. I grew up with guns in my home and we were taught gun safety and how to be responsible.
In the early 80's in Wayne County Mi at Garden City High School we had an outdoor ed class. Loaded our own 12-16-20 gauge shells in the class. About 200 of us carried our shotguns to school to go to the range and shoot skeet. We learned proper gun safety and operation. Nobody got hurt. We all learned proper gun handling. There goes your theory.
What a colossal disgrace for America. Instead of disarming we are rearming. This comes from the convoluted philosophy of those that think putting more guns in schools is an answer to gun violence. An absolute disgrace.
You didn't hear of mass shootings when we were still allowed to carry our hunting rifles to school did you? I am sure the argument is valid no matter how mentally ill someone is they want to inflict as much damage as possible not take the chance of being killed before they can make a name for themselves.
It's not an answer to gun violence, it's a response to it. Would you prefer unarmed and unprotected students and schools?
Out society is quick to ban guns but pathetically stalled in banning violence.
So in the meantime to solving 'violence', we are to arm everyone? On Bizzaro World.... this makes sense.
And MORE guns is supposed to reduce violence. And, yes, it is a response (not a solution)....a knee jerk response.
CNN doesn't want you to know that millions upon millions of people in my state carry a gun everywhere they go (including me), and nobody gets hurt. I can't think of a single CHL holder shooting anyone. Keep trying to scare people, CNN LOL!
No one gets hurts? Thats a lie... no, worse yet, its a delusion. People get shot and killed and injured every single day, to the total of 20,000 accidental shooting deaths a year.
Read what he said... he's specifically talking about licensed CHL holders. Let's be realistic about the numbers here, the vast majority of gun deaths are suicides followed by gang or thug on thug crime. It's not the licensed gun carriers you need to be worried about.
@VoiceOfReason ummm the Newton Sandy Hook shooter's gun was licensed. Whether or not it was licensed to him doesn't matter. It was licensed nonetheless. For your name to be Voice of Reason, your comment isn't very reasonable.
Your argument assumes it is an apples to apples scenario. Personal/home use vs school teacher full of curious kids.. Not even remotely the same. Unless the teacher were to have a gun on her person which would be ridiculous, there wouldnt be enough time to run to a lock box, unlock it, and respond. Not realistic at all...
Although school shootings happen a few times a year, there will be many more accidents surrounding guns if you open up the equation to include more varibles. So the teacher that normally will not carry a weapon to school, NOW has to worry about gun protocol around children (something they didn't have to worry baout before). This will definitely lead to accidental shootings in school. Just look at the accidental shootings in people's homes. You'll multiply the chances. Kids are stupid. And they'll do stupid things. So now you've just let the immature get more exposure to a dangerous situation.
This is a great idea, until a teacher (on purpose or accidentally) shoots a student or coworker. An armed teacher shooting a student or fellow employee at work is much more likely to happen than the teacher using the weapon to ward of a would-be killer. Studies show that homes with guns are less safe than homes without guns. There's no reason to believe the same isn't going to be true at schools.
Test fire the M-16 (aka AR-15) almost recoilless rifle of the Vietnam Era.
Take a 2000 lb Bull, cut its hind quarter off.
String up the hind quarter so its 8-inch diameter boned knee joint is shoulder level.
Aim at the knee joint.
Watch the joint vaporize in a 3-foot diameter cloud of bone and blood smoke.
Pick up whats left.
Have a barbque.
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I have no issues with teachers learning how to handle a gunman however, arming them is just going to cause more issues than what is already out there. I understand ppl that love their guns have a right to have them but so many kids are getting their hands on them. Responsible gun owners are plenty but there are so many id^ots out there that aren't responsible. I just think that arming teachers is not going to turn out very well. They need to come up with another solution. Sad to say but they may need to consider having a guard(s) at school that are well trained instead of teachers. Some can't even teach well never mind putting a weapon in their hands where they need to make a decision on who and when to shoot.
agreed. As a teacher I would refuse to work on a campus with firearms. Now, apparently, in addition to the stress of 180 students a day, I must be on constant alert, and live fearfully, for a possible gunman. OVER REACTION. It's like Cold War Duck and Cover films all over again (google if you've never seen one, and notice the FEAR of "at any second, any time of the day, the FLASH means a bomb"). I smell NRA money pushing this idea after the country mocked them for first suggesting it.
The teacher is trained to "take down a gunman"? Somebody's been watching too many old Westerns.
Can anyone else imagine the class nutjob overpowering his little 90 pound teacher, taking her gun away and shooting everyone in the room?
yay!...by the NRA's way of thinking more guns equals less killings...more guns are always the answer in America!...makes perfect sense
NRA = More guns = more $$$$$$$$$$
It's pathetic that we have come down to this. We should be ashamed and embarrassed that we have to have teachers armed to protect students! Shame, shame on our country. The gun freaks and nuts have won!
Quite the opposite – the paranoid liberals have won, by creating "gun-free" zones ripe for massacres....
Yes...I can see what you mean. Our classrooms and schools used to eb loaded with guns until the liberals came along and took them all out.
NRA (National Redneck Ass.) revisionist history at work again.
This reminds me of a typical video game scenario. Millions of young males in this country spend hours each day playing violent video games, staring at a screen, with the challenge of shooting to "kill" dozens of targets/assailants who are hiding, coming from around corners, suddenly appearing with weapons. Shoot first, you win. I realize this is speculation, but there are enough unhinged youth in our country that this real-life video-esque opportunity might prove a tempting challenge. Even if they lose all their "life points," they've gone out in a blaze of fame and glory. Just reset and start over, right?
Sad but true Sal. What a pathetic country it's become, catering to the rednecks and gun lobbyists.
I completely agree with you. Even if turning our schools into armed fortresses reduces the carnage, is this the kind of society we want to be?
I've been teaching 20+ years. When I began teaching, I was simply a teacher. Now I'm a counselor, nutritionist, marriage counselor (for parents), drug and alcohol expert, birth control advisor, bookkeeper, trip organizer, sun-safety awareness, reference writer, janitor, conflict resolover (for students and adults), nurse, traffic cop (in the parking lot).....and now you want me to take extra courses and become certified to carry a gun? The majority of educators are AGAINST having weapons in their schools. I just wish our voices were actually listed to rather than drowned out.
Nobody is asking you to do a thing, this is an option offered to those who wish to do it. Nobody is being told they have to do this.
So what will you do if your child is in a class whose teacher has opted not to take this training and bring a gun to school?
I think you missed the point of the comment.
Zenger, if one of my daughters teachers chose to concealed carry first I wouldn't be notified based on how the schools policy is. They don't draw attention to themselves like that, but if one did I would ask what caliber they were shooting, buy them a couple boxes of ammo and thank them for protecting my daughter.
Zenger, sorry I misread your post, you are asking if a teacher didn't take the training and brought a gun to school? Well then the teacher would be violating the law (which requires the training, at least in the schools who have passed it) and he/she should be removed from the school and face discipline.
Until a Gunman shows up at your kids school you fool.
Then Rambo the Algebra teacher accidentally shoots your kid because he's had "training" for that situation. DA.
House was not a safe place for gun for kids. School would be the second soon. Those schools just added into the list before the mentally intruders now gun-firing accidents, disgruntled staffs, theft looking for guns stored in school at night. A new major subject was added to gun-armed school now ? I thought NRA using 2nd Amendment to fight against the education system. Who paid for that the US taxpayers.
It continues to amaze me how more and more people in this country are trying to make us (at least civilly) into an underdeveloped nation. Travel to the rest of the developed world (e.g. Europe, Australia, or canada) and you will be hard pressed to find the presence of guns in public. In many cases, even law enforcement rely on weapons with less than lethal force. Yet travel to almost any underdeveloped or war torn country, from the middle east to sub-saharan Africa to south america, and you will find guns everywhere you go. I remember how struck (and scared) I was the first time I traveled to one such place, and was immediately surrounded by people carrying weapons as if they were clothing accessories. Now people say that in America this is the only way for us to be safe; to arm our selfs to the hilt. That the only reason such shootings occur is because we aren't armed enough.
I don't buy it, we can be better than this. If the rest of the developed world can some how figure out how to live peacefully without the omnipresence of guns, why cant we? Are Americans just inherently less intelligent? More violent?
Is this really the ideal we strive for? To have armed guards and teachers in our schools. To return to the days of the 'wild west'? Is this what previous generations envisioned when they fought for a better tomorrow. What's next, armored school busses and armed escorts for children? Moreover, if schools are targets now because a lack of weapons, then adding guns will only move the shootings elsewhere, right? Its only a matter of time before someone shoots up a daycare, a public pool, a high school football game, etc. So we just add more guns to public? And then what...we try to look like Iraq or Afghanistan in public? Can you really picture a future, where America is viewed as a global leader but resembles a potential war zone in public places. More and more I'm beginning to think that you would have to be insane to want to bring a child up in this country of ours, given where it seems to be heading.
"Are Americans just inherently less intelligent? More violent?"
It's not Americans that are the problem, it's right-wing extremists. And yes, these people are clearly less intelligent and more violent than the public in general.
And should the NSA one day become like the Nazi Stasi ...you will use your voice to resist? did anyone study history?
And I suppose you'll pick up your AR-whatever and shoot down all the drones? Or the battalion of heavily armed Marines? Who do you really think would win if there were a battle between civilian militias and random people with guns and the U.S. military?
The point that you are overlooking is that the bad guys are the problem and they have guns. It isn't the average citizens ability to carry weapons that is the issue, it is the bad guys that have guns and none of the silly laws that people want to pass will prevent themf rom gettign these guns. People who are ready to murder someone don't care about a gun free zone sign or a weapons posession violation.
In those same countries, they have LESS freedom.
If you practice at a shooting range once a month, or once every quarter, you go far more often than most police officers.
This way the kid who wants to shoot up his school doesn't have to sneak a gun in. They can get one right on premises! They even have several different opportunities throughout the day as they switch periods and go from classroom to classroom, teacher to teacher.
I would gladly send my child to a school where there are armed and trained teachers.
I'm sure you don't have children or you are a redneck.
Your username says it all.
If they start arming teachers at my daughter's school, I am pulling her out and home schooling her. I really don't believe in home schooling, but I would rather my daughter be educated in a gun free environment. This idea to arm teachers is beyond stupid.
States move to put guns in schools - Wayne LaPierre seen sporting an hard-on.
Something else to consider: The teacher's first duty and inclination is to protect the children; they are instructed during lock-out/lock-in to get the kids to a safe place. Are teachers supposed to do this and then leave the kids alone in a room (which they've locked) so they can go on a manhunt?
No, they stay in the room with the children and shoot any unauthorized person coming into the room to harm their children.
Glad I don't live in a state where teachers are required (or allowed) to carry a loaded gun. I would pull my child out of that school. This will backfire and it will be tragic.
And so...if your child happened to be at sandy hook the day of the shooting....or a shooter does come into your childs school...you think there should be no one armed...Well I tell you what. Any Psycho will Know and seek your school out. don't be an Idealist idiot
So conservatives think teachers are incompetant and greedy and get paid too much....but now we must arm them! Brilliant!
I guarantee this will kill more children than it saves as kids are going to get access to the guns and shoot themselves or others. This country is truly stupid when it comes to guns.
Well put Brian, oh and yeah, let's spend ALL that money to train teachers to shoot and then ALL that money to buy them guns and ammo, but DON'T pay the teachers well. Wow NRA'ers, you'll do anything to keep your killing sticks with triggers won't you?
you hit the nail on the head this is all about selling more guns.
Actually it may lead to teachers shooting the stupidest of school board members in WI now that act 10 is in full affect. Maybe there will be some upside. Darwinism does have to have a place to flourish for it to work.
If you had a clue you would know that vehicles, alcohol, cigarettes, and perhaps most of all, prescriptions drugs kill far far more people than gun violence in USA. The right of the people to bear arms has always been considered critical to a democracy. So if you don't want guns and therefore a free and protected democracy, I suggest you go to china or North Korea...and make sure you send a post card describing the great life you live
Most of the states this is happening in were on the losing side of the Civil War? Perhaps they just want to raise their kids hating the Blue states so they can invade us and make us all make $10.00 per hour, have no health care, have our children work at 9 yrs old, go to church on Sunday and learn to hate Gays, appreciate slaves, burn witches, shoot guns in the air for fun and celebration, make laws that tell women they cant have birth control...........welcome to the new Terrorist States of America brought to you through the NRA the proud mouth piece of the Gun Manufactures of the world.
Well...that escalated fast. 8 |
This is a really terrible idea. No surprise that conservatives favor it, since they are wrong about seemingly everything these days.
Your idiot is in office...just saying...
So you're okay with defenseless victims instead of protected students.
How do you propose protecting students? You already know guns won't be banned or regulated, so what kind of solution do you offer?
Wake up fool. They all work for the World Corporate Elite Military Industrial Spy Complex. I voted for Obama and I will tell you he is as bad or worse than george bush. I'd have never believed that 3 years ago, but today I can see Obamao is nothing more than a tool at best. He has lied and done the opposite of what he said he would do...NSA double speak. 1984
Wasn't it bad enough that a man left his gun on a ride a Disney?? A so called "responcible" gun owner?? People geting cauth with guns in luggage... Oh, I forgot it was there... alll true acts of responcible gun owners. HA. Mom's and Dad's the next time your kid comes home with a gun and you ask them where they found it and they say "Oh, Ms.White left it on top of the toliet paper roller in the bathroom." I'm sure you'll want teachers armed. Better off with a COP in every school than armed teachers of which most can't overpower a kid in the first place so now they'll just shoot your kid the next time they get a really nasty mouth on them because the teacher "Feared for their life" the kid was screeming at me. COP's in schools is the best and only way to handle this. There are many Vet's out there that could use a good job protecting your kids. We pay teachers to teach.
Your opinions are not your fault. It's obvious that you never learned to read and write.
I can't wait for this program to get started.
Poplulation control at its finest.
I guess we have to go down this crazy path to see how foolish it will end up being? I'm glad I don't have kids in school but feel bad for those that do. Only in America does the party that claims the "Christian" moral ground think that gays are ruining everything but can't consider enacting gun legislation to protect our young!
A rational person considers it and then rejects it because gun legislation will protect no one.
The right legislation will save lives if it has sufficient teeth. Not everyone should be allowed to own one. Personally I think anyone wanting to buy one should have to be licensed and have to pass a psych test to rule out violent tendencies.
Are you kidding me? you really sound like a self righteous, "all knowing" left winger. With the proper training and education, most people can handle a weapon, and make the right decisions. Maybe we should just register left wingers and license the maximum allowable. Then our country might be safe from targeting our enemies and trying to bully them with left wing tactics.
30 states support the 2nd amendment...? Awesome
The second amendment is the right to bare arms, not arm teachers in schools. It's sad you don't see the difference.
yelling fire in a theatre is NOT protected by the 1st amendment, and firearms around children (who belong to someone else, not me) is also not an intention of the 2nd amendment.
It's not about the second amendment, never has been. Its just making sure the money keeps coming for gun manufacturers. Repeal the 2nd amendment – they will find a new reason.
I know someone who works as a machinist at a gun manufacturer. Ever since President Obama was elected, sales have been going through the roof – even though until Newtown, the only legislation related to guns to cross his desk was a law allowing people to carry a concealed weapon in a National Park.
The NRA relies on stoking people's fear and lying to them to increase their sales. It makes total sense that the NRA is pushing for armed teachers in schools.
WHO'S stoking people's fear? Wow dude, I need some of whatever you're smoking... On the other hand, maybe not.
Ok let me get thjis straight, this person with a machine gun is the school and is bent on killing anyone in his way, do really think this teacher will be able to not panic and between the kids running around in total panic and some probably hugging the teacher they will be able to shoot this person? and where is this gunned stored during the day? desk..on the teachers side? etc..etc..etc
They are making these teachers the primary targets.
Better them than the kids.
So what's your option – to pretend he's not there and hope he'll just go around? SMH!
Great, now I won't only have to worry about a kid stealing my keys or my billfold, but I would have to worry about a kid stealing a gun? No Thanks.
TEACHER – If I'm paying you (which I am) to protect my children while I'm out working – TO PAY FOR YOU TO WORK – then I expect you to do everything in your power to protect my child – if the State is telling me that my child is mandated to BE WITH YOU. This doesn't mean running into a closet and pretending that a gunman isn't there. Get a gun, know how to use it.
You don't think the KIDS are bringing guns to school themselves? Naive much? Believe me, if one of these kids wants a gun, he's going to get it and make plans for it long before he gets to campus. A stolen gun is the least of our worries.
Well why not arm every one ? What we are teaching our kids in the school is that go head and buy a gun and bring it to the school . We should have stricter gun control laws.
Simple...... Pay one ex-cop or Military person as a Administration type person within the school. In reality he or she will be the school protector..... most likely never really doing anything involving guns, but there in case something like Newtown Does happen again.
They'll probably eliminate one of the classes they teach, and replace it with Guns 101 for the kids to take.
Imagine the public outcry and massive lawsuit the first time a teacher misses his or her target and injures or kills a child or another teacher.
very right ..the first kid who finds that gun.or this teacher drops this gun and it goes off kills junior..oh yea..what a hugeeeee messssss..
Hahahaha...it's "gun day" at CNN. Bring it on, you liberal fecalpheliacs, MOLON LABE!
Well, the day they make me take a gun to class so that I will have it to shoot a student is the day I quit teaching and find a different job.
It you're not willing to protect the children in your classroom that we ENTRUSTED to your care, you need to get a different job. Completely agree with you!
Yes... what is better? Protecting out children by lying on top of some children taking bullets in your back or putting a bullet into the would be murderers face?
They should really just install a blanked tranquilizer gas system alongside the sprinkler system. put everyone out, cops arrive, people wake up and no more bad guy. i am genius
That is a great idea. Of course the gun nuts won't like it because it will take the "sport" out of shooting someone.
We compromise and give them smoke grenade launchers
such wonderful suggestions from the left. *sigh* such a brain trust, now I see why they are going outside the country to hire "intelligent" people for white collar positions.
Great idea until the crazy guy comes in with a gas mask and all of his targets are asleep. Worse yet, half of the kids/teachers have some kind of reaction to the gas and end up dead.
All I can hope is that this was sarcasm like it sounds.
Brilliant your new invention has just killed x amount of people because of an allergy to the tranquilizer. There is a reason we have anesthesiologists and it is administered in a controlled environment. Granted it's a neat idea just a little to risky. Imagine the cafeteria filled with students eating and then all of them getting knocked out, I may be wrong but the results could be messy.
Unfortunately having armed officers or security at ALL schools makes far more sense then this. And treating schools like prisons isn't the right answer either.
Put yourself in a whackos shoes for a moment. For whatever reason you want to go kill some people. It seems like the easiest way is to go after the people least able to defend themselves. This is why we keep having school shootings, or theater massacres, or the like. If the whackos knew the schools were armed, its less likely they would try shooting them up.
It WILL NOT stop shootings. You CAN NOT stop them. But, at least it would deter them from shooting up a school for instance. Id rather not see anyone shot, but if i had to choose, id rather some other place shot up then a school.
For that reason im in favor of this. As long as the teachers are trained. A concealed carry permit is NOT enough. They should be trained in proper gun use, as well as trained in how to secure their firearm. The last thing you want is a teacher with no training being disarmed by a student and then the student shooting up the place. As long as they are trained, this risk is minimized. Ideally id like to see only weapons with ID systems that will not fire unless they recognize the user. These are not on the market, but the technology is there.
So you assume that someone is crazy enough to kill kids but sane enough to consider his own well-being?
Would they be paid more for undergoing the training or will they have to pay for it out of their own pockets and not receive any additional compensation for their additional responsibilities as armed protector of the school? What if one gets shot while performing their new duties? Will they and their families receive hazardous pay benefits? How about if they miss their target and accidently shoot a child or another school employee? Will they be sued personally or will the school board take responsibility for any pending law suits? There would be a whole lot of questions to be answered before this could even be attempted.
train teachers to shoot.. are u kidding me..it wont work. its a different world when u are in compete panic... and trust me if think u will be soooooooo nice and at ease u are kidding yourself. If my school is arming its teachers I am pulling my kid out. what they need which it wont happen you need to arm schools with police every day .
I'm glad my child's paranoid teacher will be concealing a weapon around them while i'm away at work. Awesome!
This is the fallout of a generation of who grew up watching too many John Wayne movies.
What generation are you talking about? You realize that The Duke has been in the ground over thirty years now?
Same opinion as above what is the guarantee that the teacher is not going to be psycho. This is way more dangerous than
individuals having guns. And obviously to protect students from psycho teachers this america will force students to carry guns in school. CNN and Obama do u really think u care about america kids??
What is the guarantee the teacher will not go psycho at ANYTIME past, present, or future?
That is a possibility, and the teacher could bring a weapon onto school grounds at ANY time ...right? Your post seem to imply that allowing teachers to bring firearms onto school grounds somehow INCREASES the chance that they will go psycho...
How did Obama and CNN get drug into this discussion? I don't think either of them support this. Especially Obama!
26 % of the US population (58 million people) suffer from a diagnosable mental issue each year. Of those 6 % are classified as severe mental illnesses.
And teachers (or security guards) are not some special group that is immune or excluded from this statistic. School shootings are VERY rare but introducing large numbers of guns into schools by teachers will simply INCREASE the likelihood of further tragedies.
Arming teachers is a REALLY dumb idea.
Your argument makes no sense. You can't accuse someone of a crime before it's committed. I mean we hand our law enforcement officers weapons and give them the training to use them in times of crisis same with military men and women. Teachers who undergo thorough background checks are more than capable of being trained to properly use a weapon in a time of crisis also.
I think what 4sanity might be saying is that all humans are capable of snapping, regardless if we are "normal" or not.
This may be proposed in thirty states but I doubt more than AZ and TX will make it law.
Well at least AZ and TX will have a better idea than posting more signs declaring this a GUN FREE ZONE! Chicago gun control does not work. Criminals don't follow laws. Guns will never go away. Hell they are printing fully functioning guns on 3D printers now. You don't think if you outlaw guns in the USA that some fool in his basement will be making guns and selling them on the black market. Common Sense People!
They would rather ignore those facts and just Ban Guns because..... "they are bad" lol
Hey don't leave Florida out of this equation. The Florida legislature hasn't met a new rule to get more guns into circulation that it didn't like!
I know many teachers and staff members who i wouldn't even want to throw rocks at an assailant.... I also know many that would have had a great chance of taking that kid out.... I agree with most in saying that the Sandy Hook incident is an anomaly... However, a principal with a gun, on that day.... may have been able to at least slow the attack down and possibly save lives... no easy answer!!!
Everybody close your eyes. Now picture your third grade teacher with a gun. I'm horrified at the thought. Teachers teach. They are already underpaid now they have to carry a concealed weapon so they can make a split second decision to shoot a crazy person with an assault weapon. That's outside their job scope in my opinion.
I soooooo agree with you!
People on here are the reason shootings like Sandy Hook have happened. Lets just tell all the crazies that this is a Gun Free Zone. That would be the first place a crazy is going so they can make there pathetic statement. Put a sign in your yard saying this is a gun free zone and wait to be a victim. Common Sense people is to make the crazy think that anyone could have a gun and they will think twice about there pathetic statement. You people who say well accidents will happen, give me a break. You choose to be the victim, I choose to fight these pathetic maggots back to there moms basements to live out there worthless lives.
Actually, mentally unstable individuals having access to guns is what allowed Sandy Hook to happen. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.
Your solution post more signs and take all guns away from law abiding people. Brilliant! Criminals don't obey the law and will get guns anyway. Yeah he blew his mom away and stole her guns, he did not buy them legally. MORON!
If an "angry teacher" wanted to shoot up a room full of kids, it would have happened by now. A simple, written rule or law will not stop a crazy person, including a teacher. It's relatively simple to get a gun into any school my kids have ever been in, especially if you're a teacher.
This is a non-argument.
Common Sense is here! Thank you I thought everyone was an idiot here!
You don't choose to fight them, you choose to live in constant fear of them and walk around in a state of armed and dangerous paranoia in order to face an event less likely than being struck by lightning. I'd consider that people who don't hide behind a gun every day are more courageous and more valuable to society in that they choose to live their life how they want their civilization to be and are actively taking a part in making it that way.
I don't live in fear of them. Neither should you. I'll bet you didn't know that this occurrence like Sandy Hook is so rare that they can't even profile the kind of person who would do it because their aren't enough cases. Arming teachers is a knee jerk reaction caused by panic and fear...
Oh great...THIS idea is SURE to end well. I anxiously await the 1st news story of an angry teacher shooting a classroom full of kids. Maybe try fixing the education system and having serious talks about mental health issues instead of arming a bunch of underpaid people?
I can't help but envision some teachers using a gun as a way to control their classroom. Sickening, but it's not like teachers are all angels. Stress, hostility, anger all exist within the classroom. Not a place for a gun.
Considering some of the problem kids that are in schools today I'd be more likely to see them shoot a student who is threatening or attacking someone or a kid gets a hold of one of the guns and starts shooting people.
riiiiiiiiight. any other nightmare fantasy scenarios you'd like to share to try and scare people into sharing your political beliefs?
All I can say is remember Amy Bishop Anderson and the killings at UAH. No; teachers do not need guns, access control is what is needed.
We have failed as a nation when we have to treat schools like prisons and have armed guards...
too late... we have already failed as a nation....
The first time my kid gets mistakenly shot by an armed teacher–no matter what the situation–I sue the district into oblivion. Period.
Says the person who is OK with firearms in school... Hello pot it's kettle, have we met?
Anyone that would call someone who cares about their kid getting accidentally shot a m0r0n IS most DEFINITELY THE M0R0N!
I hope you never have kids because Slimeballs should NEVER procreate!
not enough 0000000 that state will be sooooo bankrupt they will need to home school every kid!
Brought to you by,
Wayne La Pierre = SKUM OF THE EARTH!
The GOP = The other white trash!
I can't wait until the first time a teacher shoots and kills an unarmed student because the kids refuses to go to detention. That should really perk this debate up.
you are the problem with America. You honestly "cant wait" for an innocent kid to get shot? Its not ok for kids to get hurt but its ok to wish a kid dies so you can have some credit to your belief? You are a real piece of work....
And you don't understand sarcasm. Doh!
I get sarcasm. However I was unaware that it is ok to joke about killing kids
You can't wait for that?
This lacks logic. Unrealistic and way too much potential for error. Less expensive to hire security at every entrance than to train and license teachers and purchase guns for all teacher in every district. Metal detectors and hired trained security officers at every entrance. Larger schools more than one... What is Mrs Smith going to do sprint to the lock box when a armed gunmen walks in to her classroom?
I think those that would see teachers armed in schools expect the teachers to provide their own firearms. I'm not sure, but I've seen no reporting that the school districts plan to purchase arms for the teachers, just train them.
Whenever I need a good, heaping dose of stupidity, I read the comments section of a news website. Although it makes me long for the days when we let natural selection sort out the extra dumb among us, it actually serves to remind me that humans are essentially kind beings; we not only protect our stupid, we nurture them, buy them a computer, provide them with an internet connection, and let them loose on their journey to wander the information superhighway and blather their vapid, moronic opinions all over the web. Good for you guys! Hopefully you stopped licking your monitor long enough to read this, but chances are good its beyond your comprehension.
aww, having a bad day?
Amazed- that was fantastic.
Best comment :)
Absolutely fantastic. And effective.
You already hooked Jessica.
Sounds like you are describing yourself.
What a self-absorbed idiot. At least the morons you decribe us as here are discussing the subject and not pontificating like an intellectual snob. Good try. You're clearly not THAT intelligent.
And what about when the police show up if something happens? How are they supposed to know who's who when everyone is running around with a gun? I can't believe the stupidity here!
Imagine how many deaths there would have been if everyone in that dark movie theater would have been armed.
My questions remain....
1) Can every armed teacher, administrator, and staff member always, with 100% accuracy, ID who is the bad guy in a crowd? Does this include in poor visibility conditions (smoke, darkness, etc)?
2) Can every armed teacher, administrator, and staff member always, with 100% accuracy, hit their intended target, and never anything else?
Sorry, but I keep thinking of that theater in CO, that was pitch black and filled with smoke. There are so many who claim that if they were only armed, they would have taken out the assailant. How do you find him? If you go by the flash of a gun, how do you know that it is him, and not another bystander firing their gun?
I just don't think that a free-for-all gun fight is the solution.
The NRA will pass a law (yes thats what they do) to absolve any armed teacher from prosecution in the event of an accident.
Humans in general are irrational. I think our brains are still evolving out of their primal state. We desire guns because we allow our primal mind to drive us. We allow fear to drive us because that side of our brain is more powerful than the logical side. (still evolving I guess) We glorify violence and weapons because our primal side understands these things easily.
The rational side of us desires what is logical. Maybe we should use logic instead of fear in figuring out what to do in these situations.
A sweeping generalization if I ever saw one. There are people who do not glorify weapons and violence in the world.
Better hope all those teachers are quick draws and good aim, or will collateral damage be considered an acceptable risk?
hate the idea but what are you going to do? Training teachers to shoot as far fetched as it sounds is a good idea.
Hopefully none of them will have a bad day and go postal.
It is a SEVERE over-reaction. The mathematical chances of a school shooting at any one individual campus are minuscule. There are hundreds and thousands of examples of students attacking teachers in the classrooms. Putting firearms in the classroom makes them LESS safe, mathematically.
If I knew my kid's teacher was carrying, I'd have him moved to a different classroom.
agreed... and I'd quit teaching.
yep, instead of taking away the danger by restricting weapons, we want everyone to have one.
New school fashions for this semester will include a nice Kevlar vest with pretty pink flowers for the girls and camo for the boys. Accessories will be a nice cast iron backpack.
I'll be adding these to the list of states I refuse to live in.
Red States Yes, Blue States No......my bet is more people will die from accidental shootings in school than by attacks by wacko's..........................NRA brainwashing at it's best............
You have to wonder how are they going to secure those guns and insure students can't get ahold of them??? I can just see a teacher fumbling with a gun making a tense situation worse. There is no perfect world, life happens.
a proper holster that is concealed is all the retention needed. it si the safest place for a handgun to be, the next place in with a barrel lock in it in a safe.
Hey, here's a novel idea. <-(sarcasm)
If we want to stop the "bad guys" why dont we stop letting them in? Why cant we secure the schools? We should have doors bolted and bullet proof glass. We should have a system where anyone in the school can push a button and the building goes into automatic, nechanical lockdown with steel doors shutting off the classrooms and staff offices. Incarcerated criminals are safer than our childen. We dont, in any way, want our schools to be like prisons of course, but we need them to be secured with a system just as impenetrable when the moment arises.
locked doors . . . you mean like at Sandy Hook middle school?
Read the ENTIRE post Marko.
There is no money to provide security.. It all goes to pensions, benefits, etc.
Sadly, this is true Ken. When are we going to put the money where our children are? I'm sure there is plenty of wasted $$$ in the system. You wont find those funds in the teacher's salaries though.
and we can have K-5 students bring their favorite weapon for show and tell (sarcasm as well). But it would be simple to make a campus more safe WITHOUT the drama of steel gates slamming down. However, most schools can barely pay for a full staff of teachers. Security cameras are just NOW becoming financially available in many rural areas.
Not a bad idea.
well...adam lanza shot his way into the school, which was locked. it's outside the budget of many public schools to get impenetrable buildings.
What a bad idea hahahahaha.
Those who want teachers to be fast guns and hired killers should go to college and get degrees in education. Then you can play cowboys and shoot 'em up Indians with the kids at school! "Teacher! Teacher. Show me your pistol?" "Not now little Billy. I gotta fight Dry Gulch Dan at high noon! Stay of the streets little guy! It's gonna get bloody real quick right after "Spelling Class" is over."
I agree with the above comment. HORRIBLE IDEA- like they mentioned what if the teacher has a "bad day" and decides to go cucu on the kids? What if an unstable kid gets hold of the gun? Why not simply have TRAINED gaurds at schools? have extra locks the doors or some barrier while classes are on.
This is not a good at all- I see this turning into more casualties int he future- sorry to say but the Governemtn has compltely lost their freaking minds thisnking its a GOOD IDEA to have guns around little kids. C'MON PEOPLE their are more ways then having these under paid teachers carry guns. I just pray that these teachers have the common sense to have a good safe in their class- oh but wait if they keep it in a safe and a bad guy comes in??? Oh wait I know they'll simply keep it in their drawer for easy access- INCREADIBLE DUMBEST IDEA EVER
So we want to arm teachers now? The teachers that get frustrated with students every day, play favorites, and get stressed out repeatedly? Last thing I want is a teacher posessing a gun in a stressful environment. That's downright dangerous. We don't need security inside if security does their job outside. Guns need to be kept out of school, not put in.
There are so many things wrong with this plan. Beyond the accidental shooting during an exchange with the gunman – how is this gun in the classroom going to be secured? What happens when an elementary school students gets the gun and accidentally shoots his friend? Then you have the problems with HS. How many teachers are suddenly going to feel threatened by the scary 18 year old boy in thier classroom? There is going to be a teacher who shoots a student because he/she feels like the teenager was a danger.
You are so right. This whole idea is based on a concerp fo human nature that doesn't exist, unless we hire Stepford Wives to teach in our schools, i,.e. robots.
It takes a lot more than a gun and time on the range to qualify someone to defend a school full of schoolchildren.
Police have a huge support network in constant contact... What exactly does a teacher have to help make and take life ending decisions? Because making decisions is a lot let clear in real time, esp by yourself.
*let = less
The point is a teacher with a firearm is a deterrent. A gunman won't enter a school if any one of the people inside could pull a weapon on them. Maybe no one will have one but the gunman will never know for sure.
The problem is most of the men who commit these attacks want to die. Most of these gunman are expecting to die and want to take as many people out before they do.
Which is why they hit up those places least likely to have armed individuals.
Don't think it will deter wackos at all after all the death penalty does nothing to deter murderers. The wacko's will realize the teacher's are not sitting around with guns on their laps by the time a teacher gets the gun finds the wacko and MAYBE gets a shot off there will already be casualties and don't forget wackos use assault weapons. Some teachers pistol is no match for that and then of course if the shot goes wild and kills some kid that's teachers life is over even if it's legal the lawsuits from family and the fact that you have to live with having killed some innocent kid...
Armed security personnel are currently no deterrent to bank robbers. Why do you think armed teachers would be a deterrent to a mass shooter? That person is probably not in their right mind anyway.
When a gunman walks into a school he does not expect to come out alive. Taking out armmed teachs and unarmed teachers would be a plus to him!
Sure, and what if the teacher "cracks"? What if students get "the jump"? What if, what if, what if....
The US is going to hell with these crazy gun laws, who in their right mind would arm teachers with guns, only lunatics think this is the right solution.
A lot of female principals now....one reason our schools seem to be in chaos....can they handle a handgun? too feminine to shoot a perp? get the men back in charge and this country will straighten out.
Women protecting children can be as fierce as necessary.
Would the insane criminals feel the action more excited if the staff carry guns?
Yes, but probably for a shorter period of time, one hopes.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.... That pretty much sums it up for me. Firearms are a RIGHT not a PRIVLEDGE. Stop drinking the Kool-Aide people. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. I'll leave you with a final piece of advice... When Guns are Outlawed, only Outlaws have Guns...
the right to bear arms in a well regulated militia, not as a teacher in a classroom. Why do people love to forget that large chunk of text from the amendment? It's like if people just thought the 8th amendment only prohibited excessive fines and bail and kept forgetting the cruel and unusual punishment part.
Your bumper sticker comments make it pretty clear just who's drinking the Kool-Aid.
Without universal background checks, how do you tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys"?
People seem to forget when and why that Amendment was written. It was a far different time, when small towns were left to fend for themselves. They did not have a military or police force like we have now.
Instructions on using your new gun: Load, insert barrel in your mouth, remove safety and pull trigger...YAH that's how you train teachers to use guns.
Well Eric I feel your the bad guy! I guess you hope we never meet.
There are approximately 125,000 schools in the United States (http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=1389). We have had what, maybe 10 school shootings in recent memory? That's a .0008% chance of a school shooting happening at any given school. To arm teachers in the unlikely event that a school shooting will happen in their school is simply ridiculous. Most teachers I know would hurt themselves clapping erasers.
thats what the classes are for
Classes in handling firearms will not train anyone to make calm decisions.
The Ex-Principle states: "He also points out that an armed educator would have had only one gun with a few rounds, while the shooter had multiple firearms and 30-round magazines" All it takes is 1-3 rounds bring them down. I've also read a few comments about Teachers going whacko and shooting their guns in schools.. Well, hell they can do that now. Bonds states: "Teachers will hesitate and that will cause teachers to be killed, and if they don't hesitate they'll make the wrong decision," Bond said. "It's wracked with danger." And when they are unarmed they survive? That is a ridiculous statement as well. As long as there are weapons anywhere.. You gotta fight fire with fire. I am not advocating teachers pursing bad guys.. However.. I am all about self-defense with a gun if you have exhausted ALL OTHER OPTIONS .
My sister is a teacher. I wouldn't even loan her my bicycle never mind put a gun in her hands. She is not the most coordinated person on the planet, and her carrying a gun would definitely make me walk the other way. That actually might make me take my kid out of the school. Just too dangerous. Too risky. I don't think the terms dangerous and risky are what I want to think about when my kid goes to school. Not a good idea you freaks. Survey says? Donk...wrong answer. Back to the drawing board guys.
Then she is or will not be a candidate. Believe me... If someone is not comfortable with a pistol.. They will have no part of it. Carrying a pistol requires a ton of confidence and a skill set to perform under a ton of pressure and quickly. Practice, practice and practice some more.
If any of them were candidates they would have become cops not teachers. Actually maybe they need to re-think their career choice, any teacher who is o.k. with this isn't teacher material and DOES NOT have childrens safety at heart. What they do have is fear, paranoia and a healthy does of brutality. Not the kind of person I want in my kids classroom.
Give teachers better benefits, raises, smaller classroom populations, and better equipment?
Nah, just give these underpaid, overworked, and unappreciated teachers guns, and put them in a classroom full of students who learn nothing of respect at home.
Exactly! Thank you Benjamin, finally some common sense. People on here that think teachers don't have a reason to go off the deep end have not EVER finished high school themselves.
This is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. Are they seriously considering this? Why would you even allow a gun in the same room as school-aged children. Why you give the teachers that kind of control? It will be only a matter of time before a stressed teacher takes out a student. Stupid. Just. Stupid. Smarten up, America.
Exactly the first time a teenager smarts off a stressed out teacher is going to feel "threatened" and shoot him. It is a recipe for death.
Wow! you really think the teacher YOU send YOUR kids to is going to get stressed one day and shoot them?
If so, we have bigger issues than a gun in the classroom. I believe that teachers shouldn't have guns, but i believe that security measures do need to be improved in most schools. I'm pro-gun, but having a gun in every classroom is a little scary. Especially with curious little children. How many times have we seen stories of children accidently shooting someone because of careless gun care? In a way it's only a matter of time before that happens.
However!, i'm kind of contradicting myself here... but i believe that teachers should have the Right to do so, if they are properly trained. If they feel that, that is the only way they feel safe then i think it is ok. Either that or strict lockdown and security of schools... that actually my keep kids from skipping school too!
This amounts to child endangerment on the part of teachers now we'll see lawsuits run amuck when some teacher decides there's a threat and hurts a child. Teachers are not trained for this and unless they go to the police academy they will never be trained. I personally won't send my child to an armed school and if forced will file suit against the district for not providing my child an education is a safe environment. Geez parents shouldn't have to worry about this kind of thing from teachers its beyone stupidity.
Arming teachers is based on the following premises: 1. Teachers never get psychotic episodes; 2. Teachers never break the law; 3. Teachers never lose control and get emotional; 4. Teachers always have the physical and emotional ability to use a gun during an emergency; and 5. Teachers should send the message that violence is the way to respond to threats in the world. I disagree with all of the premises.
I mean I agree with your disagreement!
Arming police is based on the following premises: 1. police never get psychotic episodes; 2. police never break the law; 3. police never lose control and get emotional; 4. police always have the physical and emotional ability to use a gun during an emergency; and 5. police should send the message that violence is the way to respond to threats in the world. I disagree with all of the premises.
Why do you think police officers have to meet physical requirements, complete criminal justice classes, take tests, and go for intensive training before they can even start working as police officers? And even with all of that, we still need Internal Affairs to investigate police conduct and ongoing community relations to maintain trust.
And there are plenty of examples of police officers misusing firearms and abusing their authority. Heck, some of the mass shootings have been done by police officers.
It's interesting how many people are of the opinion that if you let a teacher carry a gun, suddenly they will settle every classroom difficulty by whipping it out an threatening or killing a child.
You know, if you are of the opinion that that's all it would take for these teachers to wantonly start killing, why on earth would you let them be teaching AT ALL?? You either trust these people with your child's life and safety, or you don't. Whether they are armed or not is irrelevant.
All people can make mistakes and could accidentally fire a weapon. And a rational, sane person could become irrational and emotional because of environmental factors. The last thing we need is more weapons in the school, regardless of who is carrying them.
Don't play dumb. People have mental breakdowns (teachers included) and the fact that they only have their fists and NOT a firearm is something you seem to take for granted.
What is next? Guns are not allowed in churches. When someone massacres a church are you seriously going to say we should start arming priests? Just how far is this going to go? If you say "all the way" then we will soon be hearing gunshots on a day to day basis and it will be your handiwork.
I am not "playing dumb" as you put it. Yes, people snap, even teachers. And they have in fact gone on shooting sprees after going home, collecting they weapon and returning. This has happened with teachers, postal workers, fire fighters, cops, medical personal, the average office worker etc. Most of the time it happens in a place that already bans carry and the offender brings a weapon with the intent to kill. Having the gun already present is not a factor.
Teachers can really be pushed to the limit by their students, but because there's rarely anything sharp or heavy or dangerous enough in a classroom setting, students are relatively safe. But you know what? When a teacher has access to a gun and they get pushed, JUST far enough, and you know it happens, IF you went to school, that there's always that student that has to push and push and push.
I call BS on that. It's a far smaller jump for a teacher to be pushed too far and they just slap a kid with their bare hand then it is for them to jump right to murder. Yet the incidence of teachers hitting children with anything is fairly low.
And I don't know where you wen to school, but there was no shortage of scissors, box cutters and heavy objects in a classroom, especially at the teachers desk.
What if the Teacher Shoot in the school..........................
Every town has police. Station one at the school(s). God forbid a 2nd grader finds it in the teachers purse and thinks it's a toy. Worse yet, some psyco kid grabs it after getting an "F" and takes out the teacher and a few other classmates.
getting very unsafe
Has everyone lost their mind??? So instead of after-school detention, if a kids pushes that teacher too far, then BAM! And the student is gone. What a great idea! NOT!!!
You NRA'ers are idiots. Instead of less guns, you get away with MORE guns. Yay for America.
All of you seem to be implying that the only thing keeping teachers from hurting children when they are pushed the their limit is that they have no access to guns at school. That is ridiculous – if a teacher wanted to hurt a child and was unstable enough to do so, I think they could find something besides a gun to do it with.
Teachers deal with that stress every day – I think a teacher who is legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon, is willing and is properly trained should definitely be allowed to carry in school. Emphasis on PROPERLY TRAINED.
CNN blocked my post about joining the Libertarian party, that should tell you all you need to know.
Just great ... Lets arm more people with guns to reduce gun related violence.
I'm with you! "They" just don't get it. I live in a state where my representative spouted off about arming teachers, even going so far as saying if he'd been there, it might be that no one would have died. Most of the comments locally were negative. Mine sure were! Everyone, even the NRA, believes a safe gun is a secure gun. So, a gun locked in a desk ("they" can't be proposing the teachers carry, or leave them available to the kids in an unsecured location?) is useless.
Hopefully a 50 caliber machine gun pointed at all the disruptive slime. This would improve the drop-out rate.
Roland the Headless Elementary School Sniper. I miss Warren Zevon.
How about a stand-your-ground law that goes like this? TO buy a gun, you need two people to vouch for you monetarily. Then, you are out and about with your courage in your waistband, and you see JohnnySchmuckabilly with HIS gun..You feel threatened, so you draw and Ka-Pow! If you kill him and he WAS armed – No Foul, No Penalty. If he wasn't armed, you must take care of his family forever. No money? That's okay, the people who vouched for you get to pay. No vouchers? No problem; the people of the community forever see you with your face stained orange, and anyone can frag you. More guns for the gunnies!
That may be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I can only hope that at no point in your life are you put in a position to make a decision more important than how you would like your eggs prepared.
I just can't wait to see the lawsuits that come out this brainy idea.
Guns make people smarter . As any Afghani .
Why not educate our children how to use an assault weapon in first grade . We teach them to be cross walk guards for trafic , why not armed guards ?
What if the guards go coo coo ?
You know, you might be on to something. With all the COMPLETELY DUMB AND TOTALLY PREVENTABLE accidental shootings I've been reading about in the news lately, maybe we should teach children how to handle guns in the 1st grade. It completely blows my mind when I think about how many accidental shootings could easily be prevented if people would just follow basic gun safety rules.
But think about the profits think that go to the gun manufacturers. Doesn't anybody care about THEM?
Nope. That's America. Bunch'a paranoid, frightened, fear-mongering jackaloons. So much so, they don't even know when they're being taken advantage of. Gun companies LOVE the profits. Who cares if babies get shot?
While their at it, why not include a taser gun? And, give them all a tool belt with said gear? Surely this approach is bound to have no mishaps../
South Dakota already did this.
And has a gun just GONE OFF and shot an entire classroom to death? Probably not. Stupid people are just stupid.
This is a terrible idea. Where is this teacher supposed to keep a gun where enterprising children couldn't get a hold of it? Who's to say a teacher won't lose it someday and shoot up their students or take them hostage or otherwise threaten them at gunpoint? Even if the chances are remote, there are a LOT of teachers in this country, and there would be absolutely no barrier to protect kids from this type of attack. I'd rather have at least some barrier (walls, doors) between students and a potential shooter.
I understand what you might be thinking, but if a crazed teacher wanted to bring a gun in and shoot up the students, they could do it anyways, with or without being authorized by the school to use it.
All of this situations in school are so tragic. I've personally taken classes at the university I am teaching at on how to defend my students in case of a mass shooting (scary let me tell you) or other emergency situation, but I would feel safer, personally, if some teachers were armed.
If we take away guns from everyone, evil will still happen. Do you remember that kid from Texas (I think) who went to school and stabbed 17 (I think that was the number) people on campus? He didn't have a gun and still caused tons of damage.
The teachers are required (in the states that allow this) to keep the weapons on their body. Anyone who doesn't comply loses their ability to carry in school and may lose their concealed carry as well.
As for the teachers taking a class hostage, how would keeping the school a "gun free zone" prevent this? Woudl the teacher wake up one day adn say "hey, I want to take my class hostage and kill them all. Aww crap I forgot it's illegal to bring my gun into school".
Only an idiot thinks a sign saying no guns will keep someone ready to kill people out.
Wait...you mean there's nothing preventing people from bringing guns into gun-free zones if they don't care about breaking the law!!!!
Nothing except hopefully an armed teacher/employee to protect the kids.
Wow so many people missing the whole concept of security. Guns are a reactive weapon and one that take years of training to master to beable to kill a person without injuring others. Security is about holding someone harmless. You want to stop school shootings here is an idea, redesign the enterance to the buildings. Children should enter and leave via a secured enterance, playgrounds should be secured by a stone retaining wall with a secured enterance to the building. Vistors should enter via a vistors enterance, which woud be issolated from staff and children and directly connected via a secured door to the schools offices, most vistors need to see staff not kids... If a child needs to be seen by a visitor the child should be brought to the vistor not the other way around. Futher Fire doors should not just be fire doors they should serve barriers to anyone that would be able to get past the security, all rooms should be hard door(bullet proof) All doors should be externally lockable(computer lockable). Yes this sounds a bit like prison but there are key differances, it is built to keep the right people out and the right people in at the right times, and all of the features with technology can be keeps as unobtrusive as possible. The reality is most apartment buildings have better security than schools.
And I thought school was like prison when I was there many years ago...
yea just build more prisons for you to send you kids to. Hitler would have loved you. You have a swastika tattoo?
Obama....Best gun salesman of all time. Liberal agenda backfires and instead of restricting guns. More fly off the shelf than ever before.
Right. I'd blame Obama to for the scores of scared and ignorant haters out there.
Yes, Jake. I see where your priorities are, You are part of the problem!
You have a valid point James.
Yeah, and the really sad part about that is a lot of the new gun owners who went out and bought a gun because they were afraid of losing their rights to do so may have never bought a gun otherwise. We can only hope that they all learn basic gun safety and don't accidentally hurt others or themselves, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that. Just look at that idiot who shot herself dead while handing a loaded rifle (with the freaking safety off) to her husband. I don't want to share a firing range with these people, they scare me.
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