By Lauren Russell, CNN
(CNN) - While most of the nation's students are enjoying summer break, teachers in a handful of states are studying – not their fall curriculum, but how to take out an assailant.
In Ohio, Buckeye Firearms Association, a gun rights PAC, has launched a program to educate teachers on how to take down a gunman.
"We were mocked when we first said we wanted to teach this class," Jim Irvine, president of Buckeye, said. "People doubted if we could fill the class."
States tighten, loosen gun laws after Newtown
Yet more than 1,400 school staff members applied for the 24 spots first offered in late December, he said.
Interest in arming teachers has grown among some school staff, gun rights groups and lawmakers in the aftermath of the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in which 20 students – ages 6 and 7 – and six adults were killed in Newtown, Connecticut, on December 14.
Photos: Teachers pose with their guns
Gun rights groups have sponsored classes for teachers in a number of states from Texas to Ohio.
In the six months since the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, legislators in at least 30 states have proposed laws allowing teachers and other school staff to carry firearms on primary and secondary school campuses, according to Lauren Heintz, a research analyst at the National Conference of State Legislatures. In most states the bills have failed, but laws have been enacted in South Dakota, Alabama, Arizona, and Kansas. Texas, which already allows staff to carry firearms with school approval, passed two new laws creating a "school marshal" program and addressing training teachers.
Some bills proposed in the past six months require only that the school employee have a concealed-firearm permit, but many of the bills include training provisions. For example, South Dakota's new law requires law enforcement-approved training for every appointed school sentinel.
The week after Sandy Hook, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre told the media that all schools in the United States should have armed security, and an NRA-backed task force proposed training and arming adults at schools.
Six months since Sandy Hook: Newtown residents find their voice
"Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared?" LaPierre asked. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said.
Before Sandy Hook, no state's law explicitly permitted firearms on school campuses, though some states had exemptions, according to the NCSL.
For 12 years, Utah's concealed weapon law has permitted a person to have, on his or her person or in a secure lockbox, a weapon inside a school. As concealed firearm permit holders, they are not required to tell parents or school officials.
But in Texas and Ohio, for instance, a person must get permission from the school district to bring a concealed weapon on school grounds.
The Harrold Independent School District board in rural Texas approved a plan to arm certain staff members in 2007. Under the so-called Guardian Plan, identities of armed staff members aren't divulged. This way, a shooter can't target them, the superintendent wrote in a column for CNN's "Schools of Thought" blog after Newtown.
"At the end of the school day, we at Harrold want to know we've done everything possible to protect our children from people who are intent on harming them," David Thweatt wrote.
The Union Grove Independent School District and Van Independent School District, both in East Texas, in January became the second and third districts in the state to authorize teachers with concealed handgun licenses to carry firearms on campus.
At Colt's Connecticut factory, no apologies for arming America
Ohio allows school boards to vote on whether teachers and administrators can carry concealed weapons into schools, a stipulation that was largely overlooked until Sandy Hook. The exception has existed since at least 2008 when the law was last amended.
Dick Caster, head of the Ohio School Board Association, said school safety plans are private documents, so there isn't a list of all the school districts that have armed employees. Though not required to disclose it, a few Ohio school districts have made headlines by voting to allow teachers to carry guns. Sidney City Schools announced in March it would be arming staff, and the school board in Montpelier approved arming its custodial staff in January.
But Bill Bond, a former principal who once confronted a shooter, isn't so sure arming teachers is the answer. In 1997, a student shot eight of his peers at Kentucky's Heath High School, where Bond was principal at the time. Three of those students were killed in the shooting. Looking back, Bond said he wouldn't have wanted a gun. "It could have made the situation worse," he said. "The potential for wrongful accidental killing is greater than the potential for saving," he said about arming school personnel.
He supports having trained school resource officers on campus, but educators have enough on their plates without the responsibility of a deadly weapon, he said.
"Anytime you have divided or added responsibilities, it distracts from primary responsibilities," he said. "From an educational standpoint, I'm against it."
Bond worked 29 years in schools and has been the school safety expert with the National Association of Secondary School Principals for 12 years. He's heard talk of arming school personnel before, but it wasn't seriously considered until after Sandy Hook, he said.
"I do realize that the only thing that would have been able to stop (the shooter) was gunfire," he said, "but that particular situation is an anomaly."
He also points out that an armed educator would have had only one gun with a few rounds, while the shooter had multiple firearms and 30-round magazines.
"Teachers will hesitate and that will cause teachers to be killed, and if they don't hesitate they'll make the wrong decision," Bond said. "It's wracked with danger."
Ken Trump, a school safety consultant who runs his own firm, agrees that it's a high-risk, high-liability proposal. He thinks only a law enforcement officer should carry weapons on campus.
"There's a huge difference between saying, 'I can protect my family and my home,' versus 'I'm prepared to protect the masses,'" he said.
There's also the question of whether teachers want to carry guns. Nearly three-fourths of teachers said they would not bring a firearm to school even if allowed, a February School Improvement Network survey showed. However, the survey showed most educators believed armed guards would improve safety.
John Benner, president and chief instructor at the Ohio-based Tactical Defense Institute, has trained school resource officers for years. He taught his first class to teachers this spring.
The three-day class, sponsored by Buckeye Firearms Association, examined mass shootings and taught school personnel how to predict a killer's behavior and shoot on the run amid obstacles like narrow hallways and stairwells. Police officers and SWAT commanders help teach the course. Participants had to have a concealed weapons permit before registering.
Buckeye paid about $1,000 per teacher, which includes tuition, room and board, and ammunition. The group will cover tuition and board for the six courses offered this summer.
Benner would like to see all school employees – teachers, resource officers, administrators – learn to use firearms.
"I hate the idea of arming teachers, but we have to," Benner said. Signs and locks won't deter an attacker and police can't respond quickly enough, he said. "It's the only thing that's going to work."
Asked if training law enforcement officers to patrol schools was a better idea than arming teachers, Caster, who was the executive director for the National Association of School Resource Officers before joining the Ohio School Board Association, said it's not possible.
School resource officers are typically funded by either the school or the local law enforcement agency.
"This is what it boils down to: Can you afford to have an officer in every school?" Caster said. "It's not in the budget."
In any event, he said, emotions should not drive the discussion.
"This isn't about guns, it's about a possible tactic," Caster said. "My plea is that we have a rational, logical discussion (about arming teachers) as an additional possible tool."
So when there are 30+ armed teachers running around trying to find the shooter, I wonder how many of them will just end up shooting each other thinking they're shooting the real shooter? Imagine in a real scenario, the confusion multiplied with fear and being armed. I don't see anything good coming from arming teachers. I support having a couple of armed police officers and metal detectors, but arming teachers is just asking for a lesson in friendly fire.
Cops on duty would be better, but that is very expensive and not all schools can afford it. Why not 1 or 2 trained administrators?
The teachers shouldn't go looking for the bad guy. They lock down their rooms like they do now and they guard their door. If an unauthorized person comes through, they shoot. Nobody is saying that the teachers would go looking for the active shooter... they aren't getting that kind of training.
In relation to your scenario, imagine the listing for school teachers now:
" Teachers Wanted!!! Must have concealed weapons training, some form of martial arts or self defense training, markmanship training, close combat training, medical training, psychiatric training, and a teaching license....basically we needs more soldiers teaching in our classrooms because they have declared martial law on our schools. Oh yeah, by the way, pay is non-negotiably low based on experience. Please apply in person or at your local district representatives office."
should we be concerned about this?
Simple question: How has the whole "MORE GUNS IS THE ANSWER" thing worked out so far?
I think the answer is pretty obvious. We must stop this insanity.
Not having guns in the classroom didn't stop the recent massacres...it only made it easier for it to happen. I carry a gun DAILY and no one realizes it, it doesn't accidentally go off, I don't take it out and screw around with it. I carry at malls, movie theaters, the grocery store, everywhere. If evil happens to come to where I am, I'm one of the people who might have a chance to stop it. That "Gun Free Zone" sign doesn't work...
You are not a serious person...
perfectly well – mass shootings happen only in gun-ffree zones. If there are guns, mass shooter do not go there
An armed security guard at every school or a select few highly trained individuals with access to weapons in case of an attack is fine. Don't take it too far and send the wrong message. We should be showing our kids peace, kindness, love, and forgiveness. Teachers with guns? That is not a good way to teach our kids. No one with a gun is far better than everyone with a gun.
I have been teaching for seven years now–both high school and middle school. I am also an officer in the military. At my public school, we instruct the students in shooting and in archery. Every student. I am an NRA instructor in five different fields, as well as USA Archery for the bow.
Students need to be taught how to use a firearm safely. Teachers should get licensed to carry a firearm if they do not already have one. Do you really believe that having a law saying no firearms allowed keeps anyone from carrying one? Being on a military installation doesn't keep anyone from committing mass murder does it? Do you think a school is safer than a military installation? You literally drive on with one and carry out the attack. Only law-abiding citizens, to include unarmed soldiers, are the victims. The same is true for schools. Having one "resource officer" who weighs 350 lbs. and maybe is not even around 24/7 per 1000 students doesn't really offer any security.
You just made my point. Military bases and police stations have plenty of shootings, more than schools. I don't see the guns there deterring people.
But but but ... really do we want to live in a world, a reality in which our 6 year old children pass men with rifles on thier backs every morning. Do we live in Somalia? This is just plain disturbing. We are killing our children's innocence.We are teaching them to be afraid, that the world is scary, unsafe, and violent.
We can stop this profound mental illness by eliminating guns, not ramping up production and making our country look like a police state.
We are a culture that has lost reason and perspective. Arming teachers is not the answer. Our youth are out of control because American has become a nation of fuzzy thinkers with no moral code and no social unity. Children are the last thing we care about, but they should be the first. We were once a country where we all agreed on what was right and what was wrong. Now, Americans rationalize every action as a right or loss of right. We are reaping what we've sown. And our youth reflect our choices.
The gun lobby has successfully brainwashed Americans into thinking that the answer to gun violence is more guns. Please take a look at the rest of the industrialized world. Other western countries that have gun licensing, gun registries, and restrictions on certain types of firearms have much lower gun violence rates and the citizens of those countries still manage to own many types of firearms for hunting, sport shooting and personal defense. Gun control is not bad thing.
The "gun lobby" is comprised of ordinary americans.
Ordinary super rich Americans maybe.
NO, the gun loby is made up of of people with vested interest in making money via guns. We should call it the "Deat Industry". This here gun is perfectly safe for little Suzy, its the people that are the problem. So lets put guns in everyones hands then we'll all be safe[sarc].
How many people have been saved from a mass shooting by an armed bystander? I can't find a record of any.
there was the case in Texas where a student brought a gun to school and a teacher ran and got their own gun out of their car and was able to stop the student from shooting anyone.
LOL – did you get that from Fox? That has not happened. Kids have brought guns to school for show and tell. The last kid that brought one was tackled and restrained LONG before the teacher retrieved their weapon.. in fact it was reported by the local media that said teacher actually fled the scene then stated he had left to get his weapon.
There have been a TON. You never hear about it because it's not as newsworthy as a successful rampage.
1 in 10 mass shootings are stopped by a concealed permit holder. Anti-gunners love to say this never happens but it does and it saves lives. Unless you think stopping none of the mass shootings is an improvement. A simple Google search will provide you with the necessary evidence. Gun free zones encourage mass shootings, that is why they occur in gun free zones.
still, how many people would be saved by reducing mass shootings in the first place? Oh, that's impossible, this is America, we love our guns. So, we are stuck with lame solutions like this.
recent Oregon shooting – the moment the perpetrator head "drop the gun" – he shot himself.
We need armed security at our schools, whether or not that means teachers, I don't know. What I do know is that as long as human beings inhabit the earth, some of those human beings are going to be intend on harming others, and the ones that are intent on inflicting as much damage as possible, will always target the vulnerable. What is more vulnerable than a building full of children? Where there is 1 adult for every 20 children? It's time to get serious about school security and make our schools not be the vulnerable place that these people will target.
The number of school shootings do not even come close to justifying the cost of armed security at schools. Armed security that would almost certainly be the first victim of the shooter who would then take out as many kids as they originally planned.
Are there going to be tests and in-school shooting drills for the teachers? How about we convert the school's football field in a shooting range? Maybe they can award "Armed teacher of the year" to the teacher that had 100% GUN attendance and had the least number of school-ground "incidents" with it?
You're stupid. People carry every day, around you, around your family. You never hear about it because it's perfectly safe and might save your life one day.
LOL! Did I hit a nerve? I've seen some pretty screwed up teachers in my day, and you want to give them a gun in your kid's schools. Excellent choice!
Wearing a helmet all day every day could very well save your life too, do you do that?
A shooting range would be a much better use of the land now occupied by a football field.
this might possibly be the dumbest thing i have ever heard. Who is to say that a teacher wont snap one day? dumb move if it happens
80 million gun owners exist in this country. I'd suspect that a non trivial amount of teachers have guns. Yet I've never heard of a teacher shooting their students. It has yet to happen in Utah where college STUDENTS can carry on campus. Just like a sign won't deter a madman, an armed teacher won't just "snap" as you suggest.
none but a deranged and paranoid teabagger and/or a gun manufacturer could believe that this sort of thing makes any sense,at all.
How moronic. The day teachers in my kids school are armed is the day I start home schooling.
Well, here we go. Social experimentation by placing lethal weapons around our nation's children.
One of three things will happen before long:
-An attacker shoots up a schools and gets shot by an armed teacher;
-An attacker shoots up a school and the gunfight with armed teachers kills more children;
-An armed teacher in the school turns out to be an attacker, and shoots up kids.
Good luck to our nation's children, but if the NRA wants to run this absurd social experiment, I hope they have the balls to take the blame if options 2 or 3 occurs.
#3 could happen regardless of any laws for or against armed teachers. The crazy man obeys no authority.
Actually this will make it easy for the "inclined" student since he won't even need to bring a gun to school. One good punch to the face and he has a firearm!
you all chickens, it is not about teachers shooting the invader, it is about a potential stupid shooter KNOWING that school is NOT a "gun free zone" anymore – and this is the best deterrent – those show-off mass shootings never happen not in a gun-free zone
Yeah, tell that to all of the cops who have been shot and shot and killed in police stations. You'd think that would be the safest place in the world right but google "police station shooting" and see how often it happens. A lot more than school shootings.
Melissa Coyler looks like a clown in that picture. Looking like she's tough but she'll probably be panicking and shaking.
One look at the photo attached to this story should tell you how silly this idea is.
That scary lady with a gun is what stands between your children and a madman.
The only thing scary about that woman is that her hands barely fit around the grip. Imagine your fat, clumsy 3rd grade teacher handling a weapon.
So now when an idiot teacher does a braindead thing and leaves the gun within reach of a chile, the child then goes and shoots a schoolmate accidently. Great way to think this trough. Arming teachers will only lead to more deaths.
Stupid. Why would you ever put it down? They will have them hidden on their person like everyone else that carries.
Teachers are teachers. Not teabilly gun nutters. They will put them down, thats the point.
Stupid? Who wants to lug a gun around under their skirt all day? Get real. It will be in the top drawer of the desk and we all know it.
Agreed. I have not read a single commenter on here that is in favor of this insanity. We need to stop this before it happens NOW! Call your congressman, repeatedly.
I was just going to say something similar @Bill. At what point will they realize introducing more guns into the school will only cause grounds for more violence. TEACHERS are not armed security guards!!!! I mean seriously, it's bad enough most teaching jobs are on the lower end of the salary bracket, what's next for teachers?? Boot camp in order to be hired as a teacher?? A weapons training course will not "train" them to deal with any type of physical confrontation they may have to deal withonce someone is tempted to go for their weapon. Most middle school kids are larger and stronger than their teachers, what happens when one gets angry and decides to go for the weapon or take the keys to the storage locker or whatever they decide. And better yet, what happens when some teacher, frustrated with life, decides to be the one on the shooting spree or makes the wrong decision in anger and shoots a student in frustration???? This was not a well thought out process by any means.
nothing that the political arm of the NRA does is well thought out. If there's the slightest appearance of gun control they're up there barking and snapping like rabid dogs with no leash. They seriously appear to believe the sky is falling and continue to play the fear + tyranny + mental health + gun free zone + criminals don't follow the laws card(s) along with complete objection to any and all gun legislation.
As a gun owner, I could care less if my gun is registered by the Feds. My cop buddies will let me know if they've been ordered to come get them and they'll all be gone when they arrive. I could care less about background check expansion.
The criminals don't obey the laws argument is like saying ice isn't solid unless it's frozen! Well duh!! We have laws in place so we can incarcerate and punish those members of society who refuse to comply with the law.
Of course new laws only affect law-abiding citizens. Laws were not made for them.. again, duh!
Proliferating guns into schools will only proliferate the damage. If you want to deter Sandy Creek events, get rid of the guns and make the punishment severe. Don't make it EASIER for them to obtain guns!!!
The frontier mentality displayed here by many is astounding. We are supposed to be civilized. It would appear the Neanderthals did not die out with the ice age.
learn to type before you make a comment that makes no sense. Obviously it was thought through. The point of having a conceal carry is so it is concealed. No person is granted a conceal carry if they are taking it out and putting it on tables for children to pick up. Lets pretend that there are some actual Americans that know how to respect firearms, and if school staff wants to take up that responsibility then by all means they should.
When was the last time you were in a High School?? If 2 or 3 "boys" wanted to take a gun from a teacher/staff member with a carrying CHL, they could do so in about 10 seconds.. holstered or not.
Yeah the Gun lobby Won, with the bleeding heart liberals who are on the take from the NRA. The funniest testimony in Washington was when the at NRA Leader explained that the mechanical and operational capabilities are the same for an M16 and a Hunting Rifle, Gee A Model T operates the same as a Bugatti Vernon, does this make it the same machine, Stupid ass american politicians bought it lock stock and barrel. Oh yeah , Remember if its got a vertical grip on the Barr ell. god, that changes it into a gun that can stop a war with one shot,
I wonder what will happen when one of the captains of industry, Rich folks, or Washington leaders child is accidentally capped in school with a gun that shouldn't have been there in the first place Hmmm Oh yeah Forgot . the children of the privileged and protected, don' have the same situations as us normal folks, and my college professor swore up and down there is no Elitism in America ,especially Politics .
Do you think the teacher will be holding the gun in a holster while she is teaching? No! That means the gun would have to be in the desk drawer, or the teacher's purse/coat/ or somewhere else that is accessible not only to him/her, but to any student in the classroom.
Have you ever seen a bunch of students in a classroom? You know that someday one of them will grab and steal the gun! Do we need Gun Safes in every room?
I would think that if the weapon wasn't on the teacher it would be secured in a safe. There are plenty of rapid access gun safes around that fit in a desk drawer.
So, the answer isn't too disarm the bad guys - because that would make too much sense - but to let them keep and own their weapons and just arm everybody else as well and have them return fire after the fact. Because multiple hysterical people shooting back and forth is a lot safer for those in the crossfire than just one shooter. smh
Really? you're going to un-invent 17th century technology?
Let's hope teachers don't quarrel and shoot each like regular domestic groups do so often.
How do you propose disarming the bad guys without infringing on the rights of everybody else? Background checks don't work because criminals don't buy guns legally. So what do you propose?
Simple. National registry. Every gun found – taken from criminals, etc. – that is not on the registry is destroyed.
IT won't happen overnight, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
I'll admit that 26 lives could have been spared if teachers are armed when you admit that as more people who carry guns, there will likely be more gun violence. More armed citizens are more likely to stop crazed gunmen – but my guess is that more armed citizens will mean more domestic violence with firearms.
In repsonse to ny88, playing Call of Duty, Modern Warefare for many hours every day will hone your skills for the real thing.
I bet playing Madden will make me ready for the NFL, too. Right?
That is a disingenuous argument because the talent and physical condition required to play in the NFL isn't something everyone has ready access to. Shooting a gun takes no special talent whatsoever, and can apparently be accomplished by 4 year olds who accidentally kill thier parents.
Instead of banning guns and nipping the bud, they will go all lengths to mitigate risks with guns.. What if teacher looses it someday :-)
I've been a teacher in the same school for 24 years, and if I "lost it," I could still walk right into my school with anything I wanted, and nobody would look twice at me. If I went off the deep end, it would be easier for me to get into school anyway... Armed, TRAINED, teachers/admin could save lives, but I think they should be trained as extensively as local police officers, and maybe even WITH them.
You will never get all guns away from US citizens, so banning will do almost nothing since there are already so many firearms out there. I live in a small hunting/fishing community, and I would guess that 60% or more of the homes have firearms, with many having multiple. Crazy people and criminals will always have access to weapons if they want them badly enough. I need to be able to protect my family from them, which is among other reasons I am opposed to a ban.
This really is one of the more bizarre things we have tried. We have thirty states, lead by Republican's I'm sure; who have just plain given up. Who are these people we're giving this authority to? How many parents think the teacher their kid has is an idiot? How many times will we hear this year. "I didn't think it was loaded". How many times will a gun go off accidentally? How many kids each year are killed or kill their friends and family "playing" with a gun they've found? We hear how these teachers are all so lazy and over paid – and now we're giving them guns to protect our kids, and the authority to shoot to kill dangerous "Suspects"!! Funny world isn't it??. Stay Tuned for the Fall Line-up!!
Arming teachers? Really. That is going to solve so many confrontations. Leave it to Americans to "teach" kids how to resolve any problem with violence. That is real progress.
This is a classic reactive approach to a problem. Bad guys come into schools with guns and shoot people, so the only we can possibly stop this is by putting guns in the hands of all the good guys at the schools in order to shoot the bad guy first, right? What could possibly go wrong? Well, more people die each year from accidental gun deaths than people who are saved each year by a "good guy" gun owners. Now, a school is not exactly a shooting range, where I'm sure a lot of these accidental gun deaths occur. But still, a school has an awful lot of adolescents that think they know everything about everything. Shouldn't we instead take a proactive approach to the problem? Maybe do something to prevent the bad guys from obtaining the gun in the first place?
So what happens when the teacher wacks the whole class. What your going to do is put killing as a requirement for being a teacher. The NRA is as ignorant as the parents who would let there kid be at a school where the teacher is armed.l
A crazy teacher would be armed despite the laws.
Where will they keep their guns while at school. How easily would it be for a student to get hold of it, either by taking off the person or finding out where it's "hidden".
They willl keep them attached to their belts, inside their waistband covered by a tucked-in shirt. Just like the other CCW holders.
Have you ever seen the crowd of students in the hallway during passing time? If the teacher has a gun tucked in, that gun will be snagged in no time!
So when some psycho comes after your kids armed with either guns or other weapons you'd prefer a defenceless school?
How many days a week does this happen? Really!! We've been on the wrong track for years. Why do we have all these metal detectors at the entrances to schools anyway?? Let the kids carry too! Why are they supposed to be unprotected. Why do they have to trust their lives to Mrs Lawrence, the English Teacher!!
This just means the teachers will be shot before the kids. Psychos generally aren't as stupid as the average NRA executive.
Stop Jim! You're making too much sense!
yes, if it means my kid might be shot by a teacher instead
These teachers look no different than the criminals. You can arm all you want but someone always have a bigger gun with more rounds. As someone who almost lost their life at work to a former coworker I am strongly against guns. The thought of a teacher having a gun in the classroom is disturbing. I can see the next headline student shoots teacher with her/his own gun or teacher shoots student or teacher shoots other teacher. It just does not get any better for our future.
This will bring new meaning to corporal punishment.
In rural areas and in most of America decades ago, the citizenry in general was much more familiar with firearms than some large groups of citizens (and for that matter non-citizens) are today. Every day reporters make mistakes such as calling a rifle a shotgun, a semi-automatic pistol a revolver and so on. Becoming familiar with a firearm is not the same thing as taking crack cocaine or main-lining heroin, but millions of people try to make it so. I don't know whether it is a wise thing to arm school personnel, but I'm pretty sure there will never be a rational debate as long as both sides of the issue demonize each other and remain ignorant about what they are debating. I'm also pretty sure that demonizing guns is extremely counter-productive. Not long ago a couple of different people went crazy with a knife and harmed a lot of people. How much news did that make? Very little. The media is not without fault in how this issue is presented. We need a rational discussion that includes mental health treatment, video games, the entertainment indutry, the American value system AND GUNS, not just guns.
Why not teach as much gun safety as I learned about drug use in school 'health' programs. Or is that the wrong agenda?
We might as well all start packing since the NRA runs the government.
Ha! Packing! Get it?
One bizarre connection to the tragedies that took place at the Sandy Hook, Newtown, Conn., school is that the father of murderer Adam Lanza has a connection to the theater shootings that took place in Aurora, Colorado earlier this year by shooter James Holmes.
Killer's Adam Lanza and James Holmes fathers were reportedly expected to testify in the Libor bank scandal trial that took place in June. Peter Lanza, the Newtown Conn. killer's father is the Vice President and Tax Director at GE Financial, while Robert Holmes, father to Aurora, Colorado theater shooter, James Holmes, is the head scientist of FICO.
Connections made between Libor scandal and mass shootings of 2012
Photo credit: (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
The two men were scheduled to testify before the US Sentate in the ongoing LIBOR scandal. The London Interbank Offered Rate, known as Libor, is the average interest rate at which banks can borrow from each other.
A total of 16 world-wide banks have been implicated in this ongoing Libor scandal, and accused of rigging multiple contracts worth trillions of dollars. HSBC has been reported to have already been fined $1.9 billion and three of their low level traders arrested. For a more in depth look into this, and all the world's top financial news stories check out our top Finance Examiner Kenneth Schorttgen JR here.
Recall: Apple Store has credit application to Barclays on their website.
The United States Congress began investigating on 10 July. Senate Banking Committee Chairman Tim Johnson (D., S.D.) said he would question Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke about the scandal during scheduled hearings. Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R., Texas) of the House Financial Services Committee, wrote New York Federal Reserve (New York Fed) President William Dudley. He was seeking records of communications between the New York Fed and Barclays between August 2007 and November 2009 related to Libor-like rates.
Recall: Apple (Barclays) is one of the corporations spying on us.
Hey, maybe study something in addition to doing busy work in college.....then we can talk about you getting a gun
So how long before a teacher goes crazy, takes our their school-issued gun and shoots their trouble student?
Because that's something that couldn't possibly happen now? That a teacher might "go crazy" and kill their students would somehow be stopped by policy or a sign near the unguarded entrances that emphatically state "NO GUNS ALLOWED!"
That is the question that comes to everyone's mind! Most of my teachers in school were fine people but I had several that I wouldn't allow to get near a gun!!
Or just uses terrible judgement and shoots a kid they thought needed to be shot.
Ever watched a child do something extremely dangerous and feel totally helpless to prevent the impending pain they are about to experience? That's how I feel as a Canadian watching my American neighbours to the south when I read headlines like the one for this article.
I feel the same except that I am you southern neighbor.
Great idea! So the next Adam Lanza who wants to shoot up a classroom won't even have to worry about obtaining a gun or sneaking it into the building... the school will take care of that part for him!
My wife is a family practice physician. She constantly is talking to me about how approximately 90% of her patients who are teachers are on psychotropic meds (antidepressents, benzos or even a few with antipsychotics). Arming this population sounds like a wonderful idea.
90%? That's laughable. If you actually believe that, you're very dense.
First, nobody is staying that all teachers must carry... only that those who want to can, if they get the right training. Second, If they are on medications, then they would be disqualified from purchasing or carrying a weapon. legally.
And when this doesn't work, what next? Arm the students too?
It will work, liberal. Just knowing the school staff is armed will deter anyone from shooting up the school. The only deterrent now is a silly gun-free zone sign. School staff in Israel and Switzerland are armed and they're had ZERO school shootings.
Israel has extremely strict gun control laws. In Switzerland they do not have a standing army but rather a militia so every male is armed. We don't need that here, we have an army....far too big and expensive many would say but that is another issue.
I am a Liberal Democrat. And guess what, I agree with this idea. Careful how big of an umbrella you cast....
1. I wouldn't trust guns in the hands of high school teachers.. you know how stressed and tightly wound most of them are to begin with =)
2. "what is the capital of north dakota, jimmy... give me an answer.. you got 10 seconds kid...."
3. The element of surprise will render arming a teacher useless.. the gunman only has to burst into a classroom, take out the teacher, and then go on a rampage.. most of them are suicidal anyway, he'll take out a classroom before another teacher can even come to the aid.. most likely, that teacher will be hauling ass getting out of there instead of engaging the gunman..
MAybe take a step back, and know something about anything....just because the answers are in the back of the book should not stop you from being an idiot...that picture of this girl looks like someone just vomited on America....quick, name an amendment other than the 2nd
This is a disaster waiting to happen.
It's at this point in the cartoon that Wiley Coyote realizes that the cave entrance is merely painted on the side of the mountain. What complete and utter insanity.
The answer to our gun problem is more guns? There will be times when teachers will leave something where it's not supposed to be, and someone will find it, grab it, and then people get hurt. More guns = more bullets = more triggers pulled = the purpose of a gun- to penetrate the human body and do as much damage as possible often resulting in death.
There are things other than good guys with guns that stop bad guys with guns. Simple, don't allow idiots to own guns. Check up on them. Keep better track of sales and serial numbers. If your gun finds it's way into the hands of a criminal, YOU are responsible.
In Florida we have the problem of non-native constrictors (boas and pythons) tearing up the ecology of the Everglades. According to NRA logic, the way to get rid of all the snakes is to throw in more snakes to eat the bad snakes. So utterly ridiculous!
For those who oppose providing teachers with firearms training, I ask you this....Do you trust your life to the police? If yes, Why? Because they carry guns? A trained teacher is the best hope for you as the parent of a child attending school. The police are rarely close enough to prevent a tragedy like Sandy Hook. And if you think that the majority of police officers are more qualified to carry a gun, you are sadly mistaken.....Most police departments have a requirement that officers who carry must qualify at a range only twice a year and most departments do not pay for practice.
I'm a democrat and I agree with this. Police can carry guns but other humans can't? What is the logic here? If it's training, then yes of course lets set up training guidelines. Just because Police have a badge and a uniform that does not mean they are some hypothetical wonder person with firearms.
Liberals are too busy giving our nation away to Cnina to care about the safety of our kids. They refuse to deal with the mentally-ill like the Adam Lanzas, afraid it will "hurt their feelings". They aborted 333,964 innocent fetuses in 2011-12 under the protection of "planned patenthood" – but have universally led the charge to eliminate capital punishment. Nice to see they value criminals over 1/3rd of a million children in the last calendar year for Planned "Patenthood" (sounds like a planned Nazi death experiment!) – that explains a lot right there. They're happy to see their criminal friends kill our kids and ignore their boat-loads of useless laws, happy to sit around the campfire, get high and sing "Kumbayah!"
Are you serious?!!! You trust a teacher with a gun over a policeman? Someone who has been trained in handling a firearm?!! Good Lord!!
What is this? Are we going back to the wild west days, soon they will give the ok to carry side arms to go shopping,
In many states, it IS OK to wear a weapon while shopping. Some states require a license and some don't, but lots of people do it... you just don't know about it.
In most states it's already legal to carry a firearm when shopping. I do
as a teacher, i REFUSE to be armed at school. if its a problem, fire me.
. its the real world you have to arm your self to protect your self its not utopia quit thinking it is.
Wrong...it isn't the real world...it's America. People don't live like this in other developed countries.
I don't believe any of these laws are saying you MUST be armed. Only that those that are willing, able and pass the training CAN if they want to. If you do not know the difference between MUST and CAN, you may want to go back to school yourself.
pretty sure i never referenced the notion of 'must' vs. 'can.' all i said was that i refused to be armed, and if its a problem, fire me. know what the word 'semantics' means?
If the teacher is armed then the students are going to go to class armed.
Then the "cathredals" of knowledge become 'wild wild west'... :/
Why would the students be armed if the teachers are?
Becausae teachers do lose their cool for one thing.
read a CNN comment a while back from a dude that actually packed a semi auto at his side while he road his John Deere around cutting his grass. Takes the term "redneck" to a whole new level. He wanted to be ready in case someone tried to rob him. Do we really think these paranoid fools are "good guys with guns". Stay away from me.
Just a matter of time before a frustrated teacher guns down an unruly student...
NEWs FLASH! If a person's plan for the day culminates in killing a bunch of innocent people and then dying in a shootout with the police, how much are you really going to change by turning it into a shootout with a teacher? Their plan is suicide, they don't care how and they definitely don't care who. This "solution" would be equivalent to threatening not to use an HIV positive needle for a lethal injection. It doesn't change the outcome for the prisoner and will therefore have no effect.
It will also be a great way to keep unruly children in line.
Right on..don't disarm the people...arm the principle and a few others that are capable...and while you're at it round up all the anti gunners and ship them off to North Korea..
.....and, we'll send you off to North Korea to supervise the so-called "anti gunners."
Arming teachers? What a terrible idea! My husband was a teacher (God rest his soul) and those students could really get his goat. Once he carefully cut his white shirt at key spots, put on his tie and suit and was off to his English/Drama class. This one boy kept falling asleep at his desk and my husband didn't know how to wake him up. So on this particular day, my husband put on a grand act. He whipped off his suit coat and started tearing at his shirt and going berserk and picked up the kid in his desk and stared at him in the face like a maniac. The class was aghast. He never had any further problems with that 10th grader.
We are sadly lacking in imagination if we have to consider arming teachers at schools. Then we are making schools into prisons. People only resort to violence when they have completely run out of other ideas. Too bad there is no money for art, music and drama, but there is always enough for guns and force.
yes, arm them with a paint brush, a flute, & a copy of Shakespeare, that will stop a gunmen for sure! so a few $1,000 for gun training isn't worth the life of children?
I could say the same for Universal Background checks. Not worth it for the lives of inncocents?
Your name alone takes ANY credibility you may have away. Good going, increase the hate and decrease finding a real answer.
What has the US become when school districts feel the need to start arming teachers?! Thankfully, I live in Israel, where school violence is much, much less than it ever was in the US. It's only a matter of time-less than a year-before the US finally collapses under the strain of social chaos. Total collapse of the US will be necessary before things will even have a chance to get better.
Lets hope that sooner or later it won't be teachers spraying students with bullets for misbehaving in class... I am wondering where commonsense has gone to in this country:)
a : a wrecked ship
b : wreckage
c : wreck
d dialect : the violent destruction of a structure, machine, or vehicle
a : marine vegetation; especially : kelp
b : dried seaweeds
A gun for every classroom! The stupidity of America never ceases to amaze...
Absolutely. Stupidity has no limits.
There should be a guard/police officer at each school. This way you take the stupidity out of that idea and place the gun in experienced hands.
When you look at the educational qualifications to be a congressman or senator, that's why.
"Who can provide me with the definition of an atom? What, no response? Teacher pulls out her automatic and points it at quiet little Jimmy Smith. Jimmy, now Jimmy you can give me the answer" Glad the nuns in Catholic school werent armed. It was nothing to pull us out of the classroom by our ear or pull our hair. I fear I wouldnt have made it to adulthood..
I hope that when an armed principal or teacher shoots and accidentally miss a suspect and kills a student ... he or she will be able to explain to the child's parents what had happened and bear the huge burden of guilt and also prepare him or herself for manslaughter charges.
90% of us want to preserve the 2nd Amendment, but also want sensible gun laws. But our plutocratic oligarchy won't allow it because it will reduce their profits a little. This is no longer a democratic republic - we are a militaristic plutocracy.
I'll shoot to that.
Anybody who is actually arguing that MORE GUNS is the answer to our terrifying and horrific level of gun violence has truly been brainwashed by the extremist rhetoric of the NRA. It's a national embarrassment. It's sickening.
It's a fact that having a gun in your home greatly increases the chances of you being shot. So thanks NRA for ensuring more dead American kids. And thanks Congress for ignoring the will of the American people and enacting common sense gun laws that will save thousands of lives. All for $$$.
I totally agree, this has bad news written all over it. Some tragic events just can be prevented. Allowing school teachers & staff to have guns is horrible. They make it sound like teachers aren't human beings, & total saints. These teachers stress, have anger & lose it just like the everyone else & what happens when one has had enough of her annoying students?? Most likely alot more school shooting massacres will be in our near future by the armed school staff....
For all the naysayers on here I ask that you look to Israel for the answer to if this will work or not. They arm their teachers because of the crazies that have gone after the children. I’ve seen numerous photos where a teacher there has an AR-15 or similar rifle strapped on their back. Have they had issues with the teachers shooting up a school? Killing a student in anger? The attacks dropped quickly when the nut jobs saw they would meet armed resistance.
Teachers aren’t capable of it? Have you heard how some have put their lives on the line for our kids? Some have died protecting them. These people would do almost anything to protect the children in their care. You sell them short because of your own prejudice or foolishness.
The biggest thing I see is that for liability issues for the school, the teacher(s)/school personnel would have to have substantial training. What you would have to do is basically make them a reserve officer. Personnel with military or law enforcement training would be the best suited. I teach part-time and after years of training (military/civilian) I’d take the role. Armed or unarmed, I wouldn’t go down without a fight.
Freedom is now dead if you think you have a point. We are now an at-war police state forever because a small, well funded group of extremists called the NRA has bought our corrupted Congress. Great.
Why not look at countries with common sense gun laws? They don't need teachers to be soldiers and they get to live in peace. I know which I prefer. If you prefer an at-war police state, seek help.
you're right. let's be more like Isreal who has people constantly trying to kill their kids because of the trivialization of an entire race of people that coincidentally stake a claim to the same bit of land. Might as well. We were the onles that sold them all the guns they're carrying around those classrooms anyways.
And anyone who claims that arming teachers in Isreal helped with their violence during a time of increased bombings, missile attacks and indiscriminant killings needs to brush up on their current events. Creating a distopian classroom has not made their children any safer nor is it even remotely satisfying as a long-term solution. That is, a retroactive solution doesn't do any good in this case because by the time the benefit of the solution is realized, a bad guy with a gun has already heavily armed themself, entered the school, and started shooting. Its like an airbag in a car that works by having the body of one passenger flying through the windshield trigger the airbag for one or two of the other passengers.
Awesome response! You don't just give teachers guns without training which seems to be what people are complaining about here. I'm married to a teacher and she would give her life to save her kids. Give them something to defend them with besides a human shield.
Jim, R u sure there is no nut as teacher out there who do not want to take out the frustration on students.. R u damn sure abt it? Well speak for urself. U mite not b like that, n I hope u dont take tht path... But this is height of stupidity. Already v have been seeing news where a careless nut at home keeps the gun displayed for a kid to play with who shoots his/her closed ones... Whatz the guarantee that these nuts who mayb in the disguise of a teacher cannot pose a threat like that? Why would u risk putting ur kids in such a situation? Ridiculous
Well, CBS news doesn't say so. Israel rejects NRA guns in school claim.
So your saying suicide bombers are afriad of guns....fail. More guns aren't the solution. In a pure numbers games, more guns = more gun violence.
Well gee Jim, it would be kinda hard to back up your assertion that no bad incidences have happened IN ISREAL for crying out loud without some research. It's not like an incident of a teacher accidentally shooting a student once in a while in ISREAL is going to make national headlines, given that thousands die every day in that part of the world – a little realism on your part might help.
The only real solution to Americas gun violence is LESS guns on the street. You fools that keep touting MORE guns are just insane. We don't have gun laws with teeth in this country and no politicians with enough backbone to do the right thing, but times are changing.
VOTE THE REPUBLICANS OUT AT EVERY ELECTION YOU CAN!
That will be a good start in solving more than just our gun issues! Just a bunch of self-serving hypocrites!
I'm with you Jim, I'd rather have a chance to save innocent children, that to be a sheep and hide just hoping the bad guy doesn't kill me or any more children. Interesting that when someone bad attacks, they first thing you are going to do is call 911, to send someone with a gun, and pray that they get there in time.
I wonder what these legislatures think, personally, about teachers. I found it funny when the same educators that were called selfish union thugs with no concern for our children during the last election are not the first and last selfless line of defense between a crazy gunman and our children. If it were me I wouldn't want to give a gun to a so-called selfish thug but that's just me.
I do worry, though, that the children will equate the presence and possession of a gun as the only respectable authority. If they're trained to obey the person with the gun, then how will they act when someone doesn't have a gun?
Has anyone proposed to ask those who would have towield the guns, those who would have to send their children into that mix and hey what about those who would be defenseless should a nutcase take the weapon from the teacher??
"Has anyone proposed to ask those who would have towield the guns"
Who HAS to do so? Last I checked, the US hasn't had a draft in a few decades
"those who would have to send their children into that mix"
Yep, that's me, and I'm all for it.
"and hey what about those who would be defenseless should a nutcase take the weapon from the teacher??"
You mean the exact same people that are ALREADY defenseless? At least this would involve that addition step
It's going to take one of these would-be Rambo's to get into a running gunfight with a would-be shooter to demonstrate how dangerous this plan is. I hope I never have to say "I told you so", but I fully expect to have to.
So what happens when the first kid gets killed because he somehow got access to the gun his teacher brought to school and was playing with it while the teacher wasn't looking, or out of the room?
well i dont think a gun would be out or inreach for a child to pick up and or play with. im pretty sure they will locked up in a safe that only the teacher has a key to. or maybe the kids wont know it's there or where it is at.
has anybody on this comment board ever heard of a trigger lock? honestly, it's sad, but the people who make the most noise about guns are the ones who know the least about them. Reminds me of that Sacramento city councilwoman who professed that you can shoot someone with an unloaded gun.
OK, conjugate a verb and name 10 state capitols and you can have a gun......................bzzzzzzz....issue solved
We are literally the most stupid species on earth? How is it we survive and continue to breed in such great numbers?
One day, on Sept 11 a group of terrorist grab 4 planes and our entire lives changed. Not because of them but the crazy, knee-jerk reaction of our species. An unstable kid walks into a school and does an unspeakable thing and now we have idiots in office, groups. lobbyist, et. al. wanting to arm teachers and school workers for the next great event. I shutter to think how we will react to the next event. All I can do is wait for the aliens to come here and mercifully put an end to the human species in the hope that world is better for it.
The sickest part of it is that we are manipulated by the media to be afraid so we'll agree to this horrific idea which will make lots of money for gun manufacturers. It comes down to profit. We are willing to destroy our own lives, erode the peace we've had for years, so a small group of people can make more money. It's disgusting.
That's hilarious.....Conrad is sitting there trying to use fear as a tool to keep people away from taking an honest look at this
Ron, you're a little early with this comment. You need to wait until we decide to arm the "students". I wonder if anyone has asked if we should stop making guns?
Ok, so here's a scenario. A shooter goes into a school for a shooting rampage, or whatever you call it. The first thing they do is take out the teacher because the shooter knows the teacher will have a gun, and THEN he takes out the students.And where are the teachers going to keep their guns? Strapped to their hips so if a student REALLY pushes them (and oh yeah, if you went to high school, you'll know it's possible) then BAM! There goes the student!
Social Services requires all foster and adoptive parents to keep firearms in a safe. But now our teachers can just lug em around, randomly allowing a child to grab the gun him or herself and use it? Do any of you NRA'ers THINK???? At ALL????
Or how about the scenario where the teacher goes mental and arrives at school in the morning with guns in tow. No questions asked, of course, because it's legal, and then he starts his own shooting spree.
Guns = Violence there is no other equation. WE MUST STOP THIS MADNESS BEFORE IT HAPPENS!!!
sir, do you know what a TRIGGER LOCK is? have you ever heard of it?
Pass the Popcorn
But don't forget to watch it on CNN.
Gun rights supporters are fond of parroting the "don't blame the gun, blame the person" argument. Accepting that argument for the moment, isn't simple human carelessness or stupidity the cause of far too many gun deaths? While most firearm owners are responsible with their weapon(s), there will always be those who aren't. To assume that teachers will buck that trend just because they are teachers is simply naive. I'd worry far more about a teacher leaving a firearm improperly secured at school and therefore accessible to curious or malicious students than I would a teacher going postal. For that reason alone, I would never send my children to a school where teachers were armed.
Stupid. Utterly stupid. Congratulations to the NRA for this absurdity. You have successfully intimidated Congress, haven't you?
No, the NRA has PAID congress for their power.
We have a lot of military people that can't find work after discharge – having been overseas or not. In larger, urban schools, hire one as a security detail. If just *one* iota of resistance had met insane Adam Lanza on hs way into Sandy Hook Elementary, it would have never happened ......
Businesses employ guards. Some buildings are only used M-F, 9-5 – but they're surely guarded 24/7/365. Don't we care as much about our school children as we do a structure?
Sadly, the first thing Swat will do when they enter Franklin Furnace Middle School is assume Melissa Colyer is the gunman and blow her away. We can only hope that before that she didn't accidentally shoot her students.
Swat teams and special forces train for years and years to hone their skills. These yahoos think a 3 day course is all it will take to produce a responsible person able to respond with a firearm in an emergency, know where the target is, know who and how many there are based on the sound of the gunfire and then while being shot at themselves, actually aim and hit the person\persons they are aiming at and not hit some poor child. If this were possible, everyone would qualify to be a member of seal team 6. There is a reason why 99.9% of us are not qualified and never will be!
I remember this teacher I had in high school. We were pretty mean and called her thunder thighs the mighty water buffalo. She hit one of my friends for this, good thing she didn't have a gun when she decided to get arrested assaulting a student. Maybe he deserved it but that doesn't change what happened.
Just wait, sooner or later a teacher will get whacked out and start shooting innocents.
We see them everyday on their smokes breaks so as to deal with their hypertension, but hey don't forget to give them plenty of reloads, wouldn't want them to miss.
Jake whined: "Obama....Best gun salesman of all time. Liberal agenda backfires and instead of restricting guns. More fly off the shelf than ever before."
Sure. And because there are more idiots with guns, there are more dead Americans. I blame America's right-wing idiots and their fanatic, hysterical extremism and you can blame Obama if it makes you fel better about the fact that you are destroying our country and killing our children with your evil ideology and violent worldview.
Just so ! ! .
Lesson learned from my Dad many years ago : "Just because you CAN carry a gun doesn't mean that you SHOULD carry a gun."
Some folks should just forget about owning and carrying a gun for various reasons – diagnosed and undiagnosed. Frankly, I don't trust everyone enough to feel comfortable with the thought that everyone's carrying a gun on them. I've seen way too much crazy where I live to think that everyone's that's cleared to own one should own one. And by the way, I'm in Texas where it's considered "bad" not to carry one with you everywhere at all times.
Seems like a horrible solution! All for protection, but what about eliminating guns in the school and tightening up security. There are crazy people out there yes, but now instead of worrying about the odds of someone bringing a gun to school goes way up since they will be supplied by teachers! I get the are keep them in their possession at all times, but what if they don't. Now every classroom comes equipped with a gun. Not the kind of classroom my kid will ever attend.
Better to have metal detector's at each entry and someone checking, but NOOOO that wouldn't make ANY money for gun manufacturers. We need to arm every last human being to the hilt to be sure they make as much profit as possible. Happiness and well-being be damned.
Well, statistically the presence of more guns in schools means that there will be more unwarranted deaths from accidents and stuff like that. Which means more dead school children, but hey whatever floats your boat hey USA.
Idiots. Find a middle ground – use rubber bullets or bbs – enough to maime and stop a shooter, but not enough to accidently kill kids and teachers. How do these people get these jobs???
And the insanity just keeps going right on.
Teachers are normal people just like you and I. They also have a workplace like we all do. There are people in my workplace I would not want to be packing heat while at the office, probably similar to most other workplaces out there. Some teachers have problems mentally, sleep with underage students, and abuse drugs and alcohol. There is also an issue of unruly students that outnumber teachers by a large ratio. I just find it insane to send your child into a classroom where the instructor has a gun on their hip. Are we sending our children to military schools, Kabul classrooms or the Peruvian jungles...no.
How about spending the money that would be spent on guns, training and potential law suits on making it possible to lock the doors from the inside and radios between faculty? Or is that too logical a move?
I am a gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate but this is just one stupid move, arming teachers.
I've been a teacher for fifteen years in a gun-loving state and I can say without question it is a horrible idea to have armed teachers in the classroom. The people proposing this must never have been to a staff meeting to see what goes on there or have a rose-tinted view of all teachers being perfect or smart. In my experience, MOST teachers are good people. But at any school, you've got a good 10% at least who are flakes, who can barely keep track of their keys or ID badge, who can't remember to get grades in on time, who can't understand why it was inappropriate to (insert stupid thing here) with a student. THOSE are the people who are going to want to carry guns, and that scares me to death because those are the LAST people who need to have guns.
Maybe it's time to go outside union rules and clean house? If they are as incompetent as you make them out to be they shoud be fired. Just like any profession.
Huggylove, I teach in a non-union state, just so you know. It is unfortunately hard to fire people because usually they can claim it was done for this illegal reason or that (prejudice, etc). Some of the people who come to mind at my school, they've been trying to get rid of for years, but being such a dumb-dumb that you lose your keys once a week isn't a fire-able offense. However, if you set your gun down and forget it, that's a larger problem...
I totally agree, this has bad news written all over it. Some tragic events just can be prevented. Allowing school teachers & staff to have guns is horrible. They make it sound like teachers aren't human beings, & total saints. These teachers stress, have anger & lose it just like the everyone else & what happens when one has had enough of her annoying students?? Most likely alot more school shooting massacres will be in our near future, by the armed school staff....
Please don't give Ms. Crabtree a license to kill, hire an armed retired police officer whom has both the experience and PROPER training with a firearm. I worry for you parents who in a couple years will be watching CNN and wondering if it was your child was the one involved in yet another accidental school shooting of a student by a teacher for bringing their new G.I Joe toy gun to school just to show it to their friends.
Isn't it comforting, that the gun lover groups know what's right for all of us? News for them, they ever stick a gun in my face and they better pull the trigger or it will wind up in their other end.
Arm teachers and then cut their pensions?
Someone is asking for trouble.
"So you didn't do your homework? Make my day!"
Coming soon to the headlines:
TEACHER SNAPS, USES APPROVED HANDGUN TO MASSACRE ENTIRE CLASSROOM
Co-workers shocked: "He loved children, I still can't believe it; it's so surreal."
Classmates: "It was very frightening and surreal."
Superintendent: "I just can't get over how surreal this whole tragedy is."
Parents: "Losing your child is just so . . . surreal."
Wayne LaPierre: "I've been engorged for 3 days straight after hearing about the shooting. It's surreal."
CNN Special Report: America's obsession with the word "surreal"
He never bothered anyone. Always kept to himself. Seemed like a nice guy. Until he had that Swat School Training!!
I worry about this too. Not because I think it would be a widespread problem, but because I fear those teachers that are least capable of carrying a gun safely and using good judgment would be the first ones to apply. I also worry about those teaching middle and high school where it's entirely possible for a kid to be large and strong enough to get a gun away from an adult.
Our country is seriously messed up.
GUNS are the problem whether you people can understand that or not!
When it comes to guns in the United States common sense really isn't that common.
This is truly disgusting and horrifying.
In order to appease a small, well funded extremist group (the NRA) we are turning our schools into armed prisons. Freedom is truly dead when American children can't even go to school without being in a prison. Sick.
There's a shooter firing away in your child's school. What would you prefer your teacher do, shoot back or hunker down and hope the gunman shows mercy?
My child is far more likely to die crossing the street. The melodrama of this "arm the teachers....prevent the death of your child" must stop.
Well my preference is common sense gun laws that will prevent killers from having such wasy access to guns. How dumb are you people who think MORE GUNS is the answer? How well has that worked out, Einstein?
Yes, that is my hope.
Schools are not turning into prisons they are just arming the guards. I have seen a lot of teachers break down at the teaching schools and go nuts.
Armed teacher=first target. The rules of war are that if someone has a gun you bring a bazooka. If they have a bazooka you bring a tank. Someone who has planed an attack will take into count armed teachers. And more than likely the teacher will shoot a student by accident. Or here's a thought: What if the teacher is the shooter? The only people that should be authorized to carry guns in school are trained security who are constantly being monitored themselves. And maybe not even them.
Robert, I will keep repeating this until someone with two brain cells to rub together gets it.
1) Have a controlled entry point at the school (several on large campuses)
2) Make it possible to lock classroom doors from the inside
3) Radios for all staff and faculty to COMMUNICATE. (Mr. Principle, What was that loud noise?)
Maybe these can be discussed and avoid having guns on school property at all. I am NOT anti gun, just a problem
The sad thing is, I think they had all those things at Sandy Hook. The front door was locked down as per policy and the shooter simply shot the windows in and got in that way. Still, I don't think the answer is arming teachers. Maybe the principal, who wouldn't be around kids, or having someone in the office trained if the school can't afford a security guard. But I think the overall truth is that sometimes crazy people will do bad things and there is no way to be entirely safe from any possible danger. I think guns for teachers exacerbates the problem or switches to a different problem, rather than doing anything to help.
First of all, when you used the word "bazooka" you lost all credibility with me. Along with those who use "automated machine gun" (LOL) etc...Right off the bat, your showing your kindergarten knowledge on the subject at hand. Now, having established that, lets move on....So the teacher is likely to accidentally shoot a student instead, huh? Why would you think that? I know this is gonna pain you, but lets stop and think for a second. What is the first reaction to gunfire in a confined space (indoors)? Get away. People dont just stand there, surround the danger. They are attempting to get away, thus putting distance between them and the shooter. This, in a typical case, isolates the shooter rather quickly, with regards to people directly around him. Now, any teacher who chooses to carry, needs to be required to achieve a certain level of stress accuracy before being able to carry. Stress accuracy is a training method that places loud noises, moving objects, and a time limit on the shooter as they attempt to hit a set of small groups on a target. This will greatly greatly reduce the possibility of the teacher shooting a fleeing student. Now, there is more training than what I just mentioned that needs to happen, tactical and otherwise, I'm just pointing out one. In any case, I am so tired of reading the opinions of people that clearly show a complete and utter lack of any first person knowledge of the subject. I would bet my paycheck you have either 1) Never fired a firearm or 2) Maybe once or twice when you were a kid and it scared you. Either way, your opinion is meaningless. signed, 13 year SWAT vet. Thanks.
So how much are you willing to have your taxes go up to support SWAT style training for teachers and staff ??
If I'm a teacher doing this, I want the school to pay for my gun – it IS a job requirement right?
How about ongoing training, re-certification, stress testing etc..
The idea is crazy. We have SWAT for a reason. Lets keep it that way and not offload your job to a teacher whose job is to educate not confront.
Where did I say that they needed SWAT training? I said that it would be most useful to train in a similar way, with regards to learning to shoot with a lot going on around you. (noise, movement,etc). When I mentioned tactical training, i'm not talking about diving thru doorways, or whatever your imagining. I'm talking the basics here, the classroom curriculum so to speak. (shooting from cover, etc) As far as the cost, you can bet that most police departments would be willing to hold quarterly saturday courses, free of charge to teachers with CCW's. I, for one, would be more than pleased to host a class, and shooting range day bi-monthly, or whatever. And, nice little comment there at the end, that i'm trying to pawn off my job. that is utterly ridiculous for you to even think. I'm talking about teaching people how to protect themselves and others, and keep themselves alive long enough for officers to arrive on scene. Sorry buddy, but your dream world of "the police will handle it" doesnt exist. You must handle it, you must end/delay the threat if you want to save lives. We simply can't be everywhere at once..We are minutes away when seconds count, and that is the cold hard truth.
We are the laughing stock of the world. The country is doomed to eventually fail!
From a students point of, I think that it is the teachers job to teach and only that. It is the school and the govt.s responsibility to provide separate security. I also think that if one school is going to be renovated than all schools need to be changed. Why protect one and not the other. So in short, I think that the schools should be under surveillance with a reasonable amount of armed and trained security on stand by in case of any emergency.
Student, you couldn't have said it any better.. I applaud your intelligence.
WOW the rednecks and NRA'ers are on here in full force today! I guess you people never heard of the phrase, "Live by the sword, die by the sword." Do you think that maybe you think you NEED guns because you're in a situation where indeed you probably do (as trash usually does)?
I would rather have a law abiding teacher have a concealed weapon that a crazy deranged active shooter, intent on killing as many students as possibe. Think about it. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a Good guy with a gun. If you don't want to carry, that is your choice, but don't go crying your eyes out when someone you love is murdered by a bad guy that doesn't follow the rules.
BEST IDEA EVER! No idiot will got to a school and shoot people... if there are people who can shoot back. I never hear of any " Police station " shootings.
Do a little research. You might be surprised and educate yourself. Next you'll be telling us that this doesn't happen on military bases either.!
On military bases outside of an active warzone, soldiers may have weapons but few are carrying ammo until they are expressly needing it, such as at a range. Try again... thanks.
@VoiceofReason.... did you actually take the time to read my comment. Obviously not. I'm well aware of the status of weapons on a military base. Worked on plenty of them both here and overseas. Had you taken the time to read, you would have realized the embedded sarcasm on how the military cannot prevent such events. How about Ft. Hood ??? Hmmm..
Do you really think ppl who are carrying out these shooting worry about getting shot themselves? And good luck trying to get the gun which will probably have to be stored in a secure place so that the kids dont get to it, before the shooter gets the "armed" teacher.
the secure place would be in a concealed holster under their clothing & nobody would know which teachers were armed you idiot! it would take less than 3 seconds to take it out, and even if they don't care about getting shot, the point is they WOULD be shot & save children's lives.....cowering under tables & begging for your life hasn't saved anyone in these shootings that I'm aware of.
Police are trained professionals. Teacher are teaching professionals, not professionals with pistols or weapons.
Teachers that choose to carry a weapon attend a training course. Safety is the #1 concern. But when that moment comes, or should I say if it does, you may save your live and the lives of innocent children. Remember, this is a choice of teachers, not forced upon them.
Actually there are shootings at police stations. There are also shootings at gun ranges. Guns alone are not going to deter someone who is irrational.
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