Utah lawmakers vote for abstinence-only sex education
March 13th, 2012
06:09 AM ET

Utah lawmakers vote for abstinence-only sex education

by John Martin, CNN

(CNN) – When I was a senior in the late 1980s, my high school brought in a woman from Planned Parenthood to talk to my health class. I remember her because she had props a condom and a banana. Utah may outlaw lessons like that one very soon. The state's legislature passed a bill mandating that when it comes to sex education, public schools must teach about abstinence, and almost nothing else.

If the bill is signed by Gov. Gary Herbert, Utah's teachers will not be allowed to inform students about contraceptives, "the intricacies of intercourse," homosexuality, or sexual activity outside of marriage. The bill says teachers would have to inform students that, "abstinence from all sexual activity before marriage and fidelity after marriage as the only sure methods for preventing certain communicable diseases." Teachers would still be allowed to provide instruction on male and female physiology and anatomy, as well as health issues like AIDS/HIV. The proposed law does allow schools one other option: not to teach anything about sex at all.

According to CNN affiliate KSL, the bill's sponsor, Utah state Rep. Bill Wright, said that he believes sex education shouldn't be taught in the classroom; he says that kind of instruction should take place in the home. Wright says he decided to change existing sex education laws after seeing instructional materials provided by Planned Parenthood that he viewed as inappropriate. The proposed bill mandates that Utah schools must use approved abstinence-only curriculum materials for sex education instruction.

The Utah Education Association – a teacher's union – and the Utah Parent Teacher Association are urging the governor to veto the bill. A state senator opposed to the bill said that schools need to teach young people about sex because parents might not address the topic at home. Critics of the bill point to a 2007 study of abstinence classes that found no difference in the abstinence rate between students who took the class and students who did not.

An online petition has garnered more than 35,000 signatures, asking the governor to veto the bill.

Current Utah law stresses abstinence, but teachers can currently provide contraceptive instruction. In addition, parents can decide whether their children will receive sex education. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, very few parents in Utah's largest school districts opt out of these kinds of lessons for their children.

The bill is on Herbert's desk, but there has been no indication yet whether the governor will sign or veto the bill. A spokeswoman for the governor's office said that he has received thousands of calls, e-mails and letters on both sides of the issue. The governor has said his decision will reflect the best policy for Utah, not necessarily public opinion.

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Filed under: Curriculum • Kids' health • Policy • Politics
soundoff (724 Responses)
  1. Robert

    Speaking as a Floridian, Thanks Utah for stepping up and taking the heat of us for a while.

    March 14, 2012 at 6:52 am |
  2. usedtobeafreecountry

    Brought to you by The American Taliban.

    March 14, 2012 at 6:51 am |
  3. Robert

    Grown men who've taken vows can't seem to keep it in their pants and the State of Utah thinks they're going to control hormone riddled teenagers.
    Hey Utah, Reality is on the line, they want to talk.

    March 14, 2012 at 6:49 am |
  4. dee

    Republicans are wanting to push us back into the Dark Ages with their radical agenda. Next thing you know they will be pushing to have witches burned at the stake.

    March 14, 2012 at 6:14 am |
    • KindaIWan2

      I can't stand living in the Theocracy of Utah. It's the one state where real progress as a society is measured retroactively.

      March 14, 2012 at 10:28 am |
  5. akmac64

    More political grandstanding by the GOP. Yes, it happens to be true that 100% abstinence does prevent STD's and pregnancy. However, there is no population that is 100% abstinent, especially not teens. This is the equivalent of letting someone drive a car with zero instruction. There will be wrecks.

    March 14, 2012 at 5:30 am |
  6. David Heineken

    Fact abortion rate in Utah is 5.5 per 1000 currently compared to 11.2 in 1980.
    Utah has the highest birthrate, but the lowest unwed teen pregnancy rate.
    Mormon women are the second highest educated next to Jews coming from a state with the lowest $ spent on education.
    Utah has the lowest STD rate.
    In Utah sex ed is taught in school. Contraception is taught in the home. Most Mormons use contraception, its not against their religion, after their married. Mormons tend to have a lot of kids, but are taught to have only what you can care for.

    Families are the most important thing on earth. Ive watched many people die and they don't say i wish I would have spent more time at work or made more money, but the do say I wish I had spent more time with my family, yes even the liberal ones.
    I work in medicine, payed my own way through school have never received any kind of unemployment or wealfare give more than 10% to charity, was a virgin when I got married as was my wife. never have cheated, married 22 yrs, born and raise in Orange California. wasn't taught about birth control only abstinence. it is possible.

    March 14, 2012 at 5:02 am |
  7. fred bazzeeda

    ignorance is bliss

    March 14, 2012 at 4:03 am |
  8. sdl

    I came from a religious family and my parents never really discussed sex with us - in fact, I'm 45 now and still waiting for my sex talk from my dad. I was told that sex was for marriage and I believed that - till I got a girlfriend when I was a junior in high school. We had sex in my car within sight of my church, and I felt guilty, but it didn't stop me. And we didn't really know what we were doing. We had the basic idea, but didn't know any of the details on when she would be fertile and a lot of other useful info. Anyway, we had no idea how to get contraceptives, so we just used that age old method - put it in, pull it out and hope for the best. She actually thought she was pregnant at one point. Thank God she wasn't because family life with her would not have been fun. We eventually parted on decent terms and went our separate ways.

    We were foolish and information would have helped. Abstinence doesn't really work that well. I lived in a conservative, religious town and we had a lot of knocked up girls – girls from good families and they weren't married. A lot of them ended up married to the guy who impregnated them and a fair amount of those marriages didn't last, because people change so much from teen to adult.

    This approach is only going to ensure that more young people are going to engage in risky behavior behind their parents backs and not have the basic knowledge that prevents pregnancy or prevents an STD.

    March 14, 2012 at 3:19 am |
  9. Mom of Three

    Is it any wonder Utah tops the nation for per capita depression?

    My question is, will they advise against the Provo Soak?

    March 14, 2012 at 3:15 am |
  10. SiriusVH

    ..... didn't the Holy Virgin get pregnant without intercourse? ......... It would seem that abstinence is not exactly foolproof either 😉 ........

    March 14, 2012 at 3:10 am |
    • Mad Cow

      It was Immaculate Deception!

      March 14, 2012 at 3:23 am |
    • MargaretG

      the toilet seats will get you every time. swimming pools too.

      March 14, 2012 at 8:46 am |
    • Justin

      HAHAHAHAHA @SiriusVH you made my day!!!

      March 14, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
  11. MargaretG

    maybe the state could also define marriage as a union between a man and somewhere between 1 and 300 women. LOL
    they probably also want to leave out the part of sex ed where it says if you procreate with a close relative you could end up with deformed children.

    March 14, 2012 at 3:04 am |
  12. UtahTeen

    And they wonder why so many girls aren't able to attend graduation because they have children. They never learned how to have safe sex and when they wanted it they didn't understand what to do. This makes me so mad as a native Utahn–its so closely related to the "church" but no one will say it.

    March 14, 2012 at 2:32 am |
  13. Les H

    Guess they want to increase the population of the state.

    March 14, 2012 at 2:02 am |
  14. Ros

    About as L A M E as it can get.
    Also, contraceptive should also be used within the marriage (who wants herself or his wife to pop out a kid a year, for all the years she is fertile??????) so a law that forced not to teach anything about contraceptives is the peak or M O R O N I T Y.

    March 14, 2012 at 1:56 am |
  15. DFWDelia

    OMG! Really? I lost my virginity when I was 12 and Utah thinks abstinence is the best way to teach about sex? Are we going back into the Dark Ages or what? OMG!

    March 14, 2012 at 1:43 am |
  16. Josh233

    You cannot legislate morality. The fundamentalist Christians will never understand this basic principle. They will try, get burned, and then blame it on someone else.

    March 14, 2012 at 1:43 am |
    • Thomas Hanson

      Legislate morality, huh? Get a grip. What do you think Roe v. Wade is.

      March 14, 2012 at 6:12 am |
      • Sir Craig

        Roe v. Wade had nothing to do with morality and everything to do with women's healthcare options. Get over it already.

        March 14, 2012 at 6:48 am |
      • Yo

        Euh... that law gave people a RIGHT, it did not take any rights away: everyone was still allowed to act on their own morale, it did not took away any rights at all.

        March 14, 2012 at 8:20 am |
      • TheLastOne

        The most ignorant posters are always the ones imploring others to "get a grip". Irony.

        March 14, 2012 at 9:14 am |
      • What Now

        That law gave every woman the right to choice. It took away the need for women to be prisoners of someone else's beliefs. It created choice. Sad we still have to have this discussion. We move back in time while the rest of the world moves forward. Staunch religious beliefs forced on others sounds like the very problems we fight against in other countries.

        March 14, 2012 at 9:39 am |
    • doyoupayattentionatall

      Cannot legislate morality? I guess that means there aren't laws against sex with kids or animals, then. There aren't laws in many states regarding alcohol sales on Sundays. There aren't laws about gambling.....

      March 14, 2012 at 8:17 am |
  17. MIJohn

    Eh, is it really surprising? Red state, highly religious, no contact with anyone who isn't a WASP or WASM. Of course they're going to come up with stupid ideas that only work in a fantasy land that requires greater suspension of disbelief than Disney World.

    What I want to know is just what sort of controlled substances their on to come up with these ideas. If we could duplicate it, just think of the possibilities. A drug that doesn't need to go intravenously that can cause a disjunction between reality and fantasy would be great for tranquilizing a patient for restraint from a safe range. Wouldn't even need to test as the effects are already well-documented.

    March 14, 2012 at 1:33 am |
  18. Dan

    Welcome to the next five seasons of "16 and Pregnant" and "Teen Mom" Utah! I hope all that big MTV money flowing into your state is worth it.

    March 14, 2012 at 1:32 am |
  19. MashaSobaka

    Maybe if the evangelical Republicans keep their heads in the sand long enough they'll suffocate and die off. Hey, a girl can dream!

    March 14, 2012 at 1:21 am |
  20. geoffrey hamilton

    Good, I hope it passes, so once the teen pregnancy and STD rate of Utah goes through the roof, other states may use the bill as a warning.

    March 14, 2012 at 12:58 am |
  21. larryb

    with guest speaker and all around inspiration bristol palin...she can advise girls on the best nanny and maid services

    March 14, 2012 at 12:41 am |
  22. spammeplez

    I'm from Utah and embarrassed once again... When Mormons run the state this is what you get. Mormons are wonderful people but somewhat child-like.

    March 14, 2012 at 12:34 am |
  23. SLCRealist

    A local filmmaker produced an excellent short film about the issue for those interested, absolutely worth a watch to the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MJHK0eV8Fk&feature=g-all-u&context=G28f3048FAAAAAAAAAAA

    March 14, 2012 at 12:21 am |
  24. helomoto12354

    Although we must teach safe sex, it's not surprising that people would want to push abstinence considering the fact that there are no draw backs to abstinence. i.e. pregnancy and STDs

    March 14, 2012 at 12:16 am |
  25. slbharris

    Why bother with education at all when willful ignorance is so much easier. Note to people that want your children taught junk science and fairy tales – home school them and teach them this stuff yourselves. Stop using the resources of the public education system to promote ignorance. The rest of us are not interested in living in your fact-free universe.

    March 14, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • TheLastOne

      Spot on.

      March 14, 2012 at 9:17 am |
    • Joe B

      Amen! 😉

      March 14, 2012 at 11:39 am |
  26. revolting peasant

    This is not as bad as people make it seem. The public school can't teach morality or ethics as hard as it might try. What it can teach are basic facts and most kids are uneducated about sexually transmitted diseases. Why not simplify the message and teach kids to be afraid of disease. That one stop them, but at least you tried!

    March 14, 2012 at 12:06 am |
  27. elora diaz

    wow dont teach kids prevent and we will have a lot more herepes and 16 and pregnants

    March 14, 2012 at 12:05 am |
  28. SB

    What is happening to this country? Every day it seems we're slipping backwards in time. Sex is part of life. How will pretending it doesn't exist, or treating it as taboo, help anyone?

    March 13, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
  29. Terre

    Not a big surprise there, Utahns after all lead the nation in online porn consumption. You gotta luv the cons.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
  30. Henry

    Utah and the GOP: getting crazier by the second. Why not just do away with education altogether? That would save so much money. I D I O T S !!!!

    March 13, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
  31. half tilted

    utah....top consumer of porn in the u.s.a....too funny !

    March 13, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
  32. half tilted

    utah....top consumer of pornography in the united states....too funny !

    March 13, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
  33. half tilted

    utah...to funny !

    March 13, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Grammar nazi

      *too

      March 14, 2012 at 12:14 am |
  34. Loathstheright

    GOP, keep em' ignorant, keep em' scared, make em' hate. Conservatism is a vile disease infecting low IQ Americans.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • larryb

      don't forget keep them barefoot and pregnant

      March 14, 2012 at 12:50 am |
  35. half tilted

    utah is the top consumer of pornography in the united states.

    why doesn't utah try to control the porn before they preach abstinence ?

    March 13, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
  36. bill

    weak.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
  37. cher

    I dont know which side Im on honestly... Its a tuffie lol... I think starting sex ed too young is bad.. they started it for me in gr 4 or 5 and all it did was get all the kids interested in it and they only gave us anatomy classes that were basic so of course a bunch of kids are going to start talking about "sex" because thats what they called it "sex ed"..so we obviously didnt know anything but I think it got the ball rolling too soon lol.. I do think that sexual education should come from the home but unfortunatly it usually doesnt... too many parents dont want to do it or kids just have bad parents lol.. so in that case I am for it, especially about birth control information and std information but just not too soon..but then idk I remember kids in gr 6 and 7 starting up so whos to say? Im gklad I dont have kids ha ha...and if I do Ive got sometime to think about lol. Reallys it not an easy subject.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
  38. Larry L

    Do you need more reasons not to have a Mormon OR a evangelical Christian in the White House?

    March 13, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
    • anahadwolves

      Makes one wonder why there even are a Brigham Young University, a Notre Dame or any other college or university sponsored by a religion. If the facts don't square with the religion...toss out the facts! Evolution? Irrelevant; God created us exactly as we are...and, only 6,000 years ago, too. Other religions? Irrelevant. Only Christians are the one, true religion; all the others are sinners and heathens.

      Ghandi had a fascinating statement in the 1940s: "I love your Christ. I dislike your Christians. They are so un-Christ-like." I think Ghandi was onto something.

      March 13, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
      • proveevolution

        Evolution is not a fact, do your research before spouting off some crap that you heard on msnbc

        March 13, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
      • Grammar nazi

        Evolution is a "scientific theory", much the same way gravity is a scientific theory. But by all means, take a running leap off your church roof to despute this petty scientific theory. Scientific theory is much different than a theory.

        March 14, 2012 at 12:20 am |
      • Josh233

        proveevolution: You obviously don't understand the scientific method. Try to lay off Fox News for a few days and read a book. Try to understand what science is and what it isn't. Your comments are childish.

        March 14, 2012 at 1:46 am |
      • Spelling Nazi

        *dispute

        March 14, 2012 at 3:07 am |
      • Sir Craig

        proveevolution: Evolution is very much a fact, tested time and time again. You are allowed your own opinions, but you are NOT allowed your own facts, and no matter how much you deny reality, it will continue on without you or your input and will most likely smack you upside the head if you continue to deny it. Unlike your "creator".

        March 14, 2012 at 6:54 am |
  39. Doh

    Typical Republican agenda: ignorance.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
  40. NvGuy

    Ah, the new Kansas of the west.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
    • coyote

      That is hilarious! I live in Kansas, born and raised, and am consistently embarrassed about it being one of the reddest states in the nation and the decisions that are made here. I am going to start calling Utah "New Kansas". LOL

      March 14, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
  41. Arthur Paliden

    Next you will have the Government of the US replace the stars of the flag with little white crosses as befitting the devolution of that great country into a Christian Theocracy.

    March 13, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
    • Geo

      FYI,

      Mormons don't worship the cross. What would the Christians have done if Jesus was hanged? Wear a noose around their necks...

      March 14, 2012 at 12:12 am |
      • Grammar nazi

        You're correct, they worship a God that lives on a planet near a star they call Kolob, while wearing magical underpants and reading scripture written by a historically proven swindler who wrote in 15th century English during the 19th century. You can't make this stuff up.........wait.

        March 14, 2012 at 12:26 am |
      • tacc2

        Yeah, they probably would. Or if Jesus had been executed in recent time, it would probably be little electric chairs, or bullets, or maybe a syringe.

        March 14, 2012 at 10:32 am |
  42. Scott

    I really think this is an example of parents repressed anger toward their children. Can you imagine how these parents would have responded if someone had told them not to have sex in their late teens? And to be honest, do any of us really not want our children sexually active at the appropriate age?

    March 13, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
  43. sumguy

    Here come the Magic Panties....

    March 13, 2012 at 10:38 pm |
  44. Price

    Ignore facts. That's effective.

    March 13, 2012 at 10:27 pm |
  45. MarkinFL

    He acknowledged that he is against s.ex ed. Now he is going to waste perfectly good instructional time on the single most ineffective method of preventing pregnancy and STDs. Why bother?

    March 13, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
  46. Bill Fitzgerald

    How do you like CHARTREUXE comment? Abstinence doesn't work. What? I have news for you. It works not 98 %, not 99% but a whopping 100 % of the time. And the Government has NO business teaching my children anything about sex! My job period. Thank you Utah and for the people who don't like the rules, yours is the choice to move.

    March 13, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
  47. Chartreuxe

    There's a difference between what people wish was reality and what works...and here they go again.

    Abstinence doesn't work, and it fails 85% of the time. If this is what Utah wants FOR THEIR CHILDREN, they must be prepared for the HIGH RATE OF PREGNANCY AND ABORTION THAT WILL FOLLOW THEIR FOOLISH DECISION.

    THIS IS STUPID AND SHORT-SIGHTED IN THE 2ST CENTURY.

    People are doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different outcome. This is the very definition of INSANITY.

    *sigh* They don't care what happens to their children.

    March 13, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
  48. Graham Krueger

    This whole issue is whether human beings have the right to know the entirety of the truth about their own bodies and how to take care of themselves when becoming sexually active. Anything that doesn't push for greater education opportunities is undermining the rights of the populace to the truth, especially teens who are a) likely to begin engaging in sexual activity, and b) generally dependent on others for information. A political difference between parent and child could keep the kid from learning about this stuff, so if not at school, where? This is really just one more front in the drive to ban contraceptives and hand control of our private lives over to the church.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
  49. heather

    i've been to utah. they are weird and they wear alot of underwear. the women wear bras over their under shirts. but knowledge is power utah. shame on this state. they better get more money set aside for all of the new babies

    March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • andymosity

      Having lots of babies is the whole idea. Missionary work alone won't get people to join the mormon club so they're trying to breed all of the apostates out.

      March 13, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
  50. Spencer

    I've always believed you have to teach the hole story. Anyone who thinks they are going to prevent their child from having sex is just helping to fuel their curiosity. Really parents, you should know by now that telling your child no just makes them want it more. And to top if off, they are going to do it unprotected and risk their health and a teenage pregnancy. Good job Utah!

    March 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
  51. Odin

    wish more of those with many wives would practice some sort of birth control, rather than depending on welfare to support their rug rats

    March 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
  52. JimiJons

    The Church is only doing what it has done for the past 2000 years: Teach ignorance.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • Adam

      The Mormon Church was only invented about 150 years ago.

      March 13, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
  53. Katie

    Good luck with that. Remember the stats from the young Christians who took the pledge to remain chaste until marriage? Their unplanned pregnancy rates went up.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • Arthur Paliden

      Shhhh, don't confuse the issue with facts.

      March 13, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
  54. Hesus

    Cause sex were invented by the devil!

    March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
  55. Dan

    I forgot why i rarely visit cnn.com anymore.... There are a bunch of uneducated people who make alot of demeaning and hateful comments on here. And Cnn is biased for you who don't know or are blind to it. Anyways.... kudos Utah for standing up for what you believe in. You know what you stand for and try to pass laws accordingly. This is how America works for those who forget how our system works. I'm a 26 yr old Air Force vet who served to defend America and our freedoms. Im not a mormon and do not live in Utah. Im just glad to see people will stand up for morals and not are afraid of not being PC (politically correct). Freedom of Speach people....

    March 13, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • Katie

      (Freedom of Speach? Some kind of fruit, like peaches?) It's just fine to stand up for what you believe in. But stupid to bury your head in the sand. And un-American to impose religious views on everyone.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • Odin

      so if they want to teach about a flat earth are you OK with that

      March 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
      • GW

        No, that would be Texas and most other southern states.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
      • Scott

        Hey GW.........At least in Texas we know the difference between the southern states and the southwestern ones, and we're not silly enough to think our children aren't having sex. In fact we want them to because it's normal.

        March 13, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
    • stacheman

      The Air Force obviously didn't teach you how to spell...

      March 13, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
      • larryb

        are you kidding...during the bush presidency all the armed forces took anyone...including troubled youth with records

        March 14, 2012 at 12:47 am |
    • Loathstheright

      Uh, I was in the Air Force and they only take the most educated into their ranks....so you are either lying or some how con'd your way in.

      March 13, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
      • Terre

        He's was just a hangar sweeper.

        March 13, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • NvGuy

      It does not matter what you believe, the FACT is that abstinence teaching fails to prevent teen pregnancy and sex education works.
      As long as we cut off all federal medicaid to Utah, I am good with this, let the stupid mormons support their own ignorance.

      March 14, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • Herby Sagues

      Yes! Stand for your beliefs! If you believe in Thor, it is the right thing to only allow teaching about Thor in schools!

      Do people realize that there's such a thing as more reasonable beliefs and more stupid beliefs?

      March 14, 2012 at 3:09 am |
    • Mad Cow

      "kudos Utah for standing up for what you believe in" Since when did a state have an opinion? Are states people the way that corporations are now people?
      According to the article very few people choose to opt out of the current sex-ed classes.

      BLEED THE BEAST, MORMONS!

      Planned Parenthood and birth control prevent abortions. So there.

      March 14, 2012 at 3:20 am |
    • Sir Craig

      Do me a favor and don't mention your Air Force "career" please. Some of us still have a bit of pride at having been part of the organization, and it is really annoying to have an uneducated pup start flashing his AF "creds" around like it is supposed to add weight to his argument, or lack thereof.

      March 14, 2012 at 6:58 am |
    • Dennis

      They are not standing up for what Utah believes in. This is a small group trying to inject there religion into the state government. This is not a law that "serves the people of Utah" this is a law that forces the people of Utah to abide by the beliefs and teachings of a certain religon. And that is unconstitutional. Shame on you "Mr USAF VET" for not seeing this or did your pastor tell you this is ok?.......

      March 14, 2012 at 8:46 am |
    • The Real Tom Paine

      Ah, so I guess we can practice free speech, but it must be approved by you? Seems like you've got the usually rightie disease of whining and complaining when you find a belief that does not correspond to yours. This piece is not about religion, its about the obcession the Right has with limiting access to information needed to amke important decisions. I would have thought a free-speech advocate would have opposed that, but I guess you just want your daily rightie affirmation instead. If you find CNN so offensive, then stay out and find a place where you can be spoon-fed the opinions you prefer.

      March 14, 2012 at 9:02 am |
    • tacc2

      Wow, you defended America and our freedoms? Was there an attack by an invading army that you helped repel or something? I don't remember hearing about that. You know, I really don't have anything against the people in the armed services. I'm glad they're there in case we ever have a real threat to our freedom and need them. But talk like this kills me.

      March 14, 2012 at 10:38 am |
  56. Hmmm

    Abstinence is the absolute best way to go. Guess what, you won't get pregnant or get an STD (unless of course you're sharing needles, etc) if you don't have sex. But that being said, Utah does have the highest rate of teen pregnancy because the teens there are either refugees from third world countries (esp. African countries) and haven't been educated about sex, or the teens are sure that they will never have premarital sex so they don't bother learning about it and understanding how to prevent pregnancy. This law goes too far. I agree that abstinence should be taught as the main method of prevention but they should also at least teach what contraceptives are. And this is coming from someone who moved to Utah halfway through high school so I know first hand about the pregnancy problem there.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
  57. Steelstrings

    He said, as he impregnated his 32 wives...

    March 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
  58. steven Harnack

    Are the Talivangalists taking over this country or what? All these things have been settled years ago! I fell like I'm waking up to 1952 all over again.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
  59. IamFrankIworkInAbank

    I will tongue punch your fart box.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
  60. xeno

    Utah is ranked 42nd in the country for education (SL Trib) but boasts the youngest average age at first marriage and the largest birth rate (KSL). My guess is, the LDS women are getting tired of being baby machines for the church and are looking for what else there is in life. Thus, they have to institute a policy KNOWN to increase teen pregnancy to smack some of those women back down into their married, baby making places. I've met a lot of wonderful, talented, smart LDS women, and I hope that they will continue to search outward.

    March 13, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
  61. Chris

    Many parents delay "the talk" with their children as long as possible, maybe because they don't want to admit their baby is growing up? Perhaps the child is too embarassed to talk to their parent about sex? If my child is too embarassed to ask me about sex, biology and the rest of it, I would rather they learn facts in school rather then from their friends (and we all know how accurate most of that is) or that "abstinence is the only way". Let's face it, kids always have and always will experiment with sex and relationships. Because I don't live with my head in the sand, I want my children to be as well informed and prepared as I can possibly make them regaring choices and if sex ed in school is the way, then so be it.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
  62. Bill

    "abstinence from all sexual activity before marriage and fidelity after marriage as the only sure methods for preventing certain communicable diseases."

    Learn, women. If you are abstinent, you can never be raped by somebody with AIDS.

    Knowledge is power! Go Utah!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
  63. whosaidthat

    Well, this is such a surprise! If you like Utah's approach go live there! Sad when teaching facts becomes forbidden by the government and censorship becomes the norm. But hey, if you like to live where knowledge is inconvenient and you believe you haven't taught your kids strong values, I understand that you want the state to do it for you. I hope those schools aren't receiving any of my federal tax dollars! I think whether reality is inconvenient or not, it should be taught whether you like it or not.

    But then there are many states I want no part of and Utah is very close to number one. We would be better off without that state and several others.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • LeBronHairline

      We don't want your kind here anyway.Besides, you really would hate it here.The city is clean.I'm betting your inner city looks like a gutter.Enjoy.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
      • whosaidthat

        Nice assumption. But between our pacific northwest state that has an ocean or your hole, I know where I would rather live anyday. What's an inner city? I am not even close to something as large as that pitiful city you call Salt Lake.

        March 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
  64. Bob

    In America sex is an obsession, in other parts of the world it is a fact. I think Marlene Dietrich said that. I think she was right. Also, because people who think sex is only for procreation also think food is only eaten to stave off hunger pangs and alcohol only exists to stand in for the blood of Jesus during communion, they can't stand the idea that someone might actually enjoy these things for their own sake. I think it was H.L. Mencken who said Puritanism is an uncontrollable fear that someone, somewhere, is having fun. I think he was right too.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
  65. Alf

    Liberals will hate this because liberals love it when men do other men in the bum. " I'm a liberal " really means " I love huge throbbers in my mouth and backdoor hole."

    March 13, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Jorge

      alf, go chew some tobacco.

      March 14, 2012 at 7:37 am |
  66. pfffffff

    You can't do this Utah !!!! I command you to be like us progressive states !! You must be like us New Yorkers where we have 4 kids we can't take care of by the time we're 17 and throw kids in dumpsters if it gets too bad.We progressives in California have 6 kids in a progressive bankrupt state.You must be like us Utah.If you don't have 5 kids by the time you're 20 and receive welfare, I will call you backward.Get with the program Utah!!!

    March 13, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
  67. JW

    Schools will still teach this, just won't be the teachers, it will be other kids. And that sort of education might be kind of lacking.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
  68. JW

    parents should teach this, but many don't. so this leaves a big gap.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • Leofwine

      Grew up in Utah and that's exactly how it is. We only learned about sex from other kids. Laughable stuff now but people can't legislate against hormones and even the most religious kids want to know.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • le Sigh

      I'm even seeing on this board that there are many parents who are not qualified to have this discussion anyway. What do you do in school? Learn?...Why can't you learn about your body and the world?

      Arrgh, this is so frustrating!

      March 14, 2012 at 6:47 am |
  69. ldsmom02

    Some of you here actually think that teenagers are so ignorant that they don't know already about contraceptives and all forms of birth control? Do they watch TV? Do they go to movies? Do they have friends and parents and other relatives and maybe a church organization they attend? I cannot believe that in the 21st century people actually believe that teenagers are so stupid as to not know how you get pregnant or how to prevent it.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • Ally

      We didn't have sex ed in my highschool and once one of my friends broke down in tears because she and her boyfriend had been playing around and he ejaculated on her stomach. She thought she might get pregnant through her belly button.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • xeno

      I can't believe that in the 21st century, people would believe it's okay to baptize dead Jews or believe in magic underwear, but there you are.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • someGuy

      I didn't know exactly what sex was until I was in sixth grade, when I was told in sex-ed. I knew sex caused pregnancy, but had no idea what female genitalia looked like or how that related to my own genitalia, let alone knew anything about contraceptives. This was all due to the fact that my evangelical christian father was too uncomfortable with the topic to tell me, he never had the sex talk with me. In fact even when I was like 18 he still wanted to have the talk to explain the 'spiritual' aspect of sex to me, but still never even did that, he just told me he wanted to. By then I had already decided that he was so narrow-minded as to be useless to me by way of advice, closing my mind off to anything of worth he actually did have to say. Not giving your kids the sex-talk, or preaching abstinence only, is the equivalent of keeping your kid in diapers for as long as possible, or breast feeding for way too long. By the way, my father got my mother pregnant at 16. The interesting thing is they had to focus so much on taking care of their children that their growth as people was stunted, and even today still hold ridiculous beliefs based on flawed logic, are generally short-sighted, and somewhat dim. The ironic thing is, the fact that my mothers church was so intolerant and judgmental toward her when she got pregnant was one of the only reasons I wasn't forced to go to church as a child, and also that consistent intolerance and self-righteous zealotry is the main reason why I do not call myself a christian today. So I guess were someone to faithfully believe in heaven and hell, that intolerance and lack of courage toward explaining a basic human function cost me my eternal salvation. By the way, I am not an atheist, I just choose not to follow these ridiculous religions, which even if they were given to us by god, are now so corrupted by the narrow-minded and opportunistic perspective of their followers that they are not a conduit to god, but more often are a conduit to ego-obsessed self-absorption and self-righteous, bigoted persecution of anything and anyone who isn't like minded. Grow the F up and quit being so uncomfortable with sex. If you would just educate your children, then sex would seem much more boring than it does if it's some taboo thing one should never do. Imagine being forced to never eat chocolate, ever, but every day you see others who clearly eat it, are normal, and obviously enjoy it. Who knows how wonderful chocolate tastes, and how foolish are the enforcers of this rule, what else are they lying about? In reality it's pretty good, but nothing worth obsessing over. Eat some and move on with your life.

      March 13, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • le Sigh

      I can't tell if this is a deflection or what... I mean are they supposed to google "how do I sex?" and society just hopes that they don't get their education from pornography?

      I don't understand why we can standardize the message. Abstinence is 100% but that isn't reality so here is the rest of the information because you are going to make your own decisions anyway, lets give you as much knowledge as we can. That's the goal of an educational institution anyway right?

      March 14, 2012 at 6:50 am |
  70. Patiat

    That's right, UTAH!!! Treat the world not as it is, but as how you think it should be, even if it never was that way.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
  71. ChasB

    Most parents don't broach the subject of sex with their kids (my parents are liberal, open-minded and they still didn't discuss it AT ALL with me. Furthermore, you're not only competing with hormones, but also the messaging kids receive from TV, music, peers which are very sexually charged (not to say I think there's anything wrong with that cause I feel our country is WAY too prudish).

    The truth is, if you expect to compete with all that you need to let kids know what their options are and most parents aren't even educated enough to know the current statistics or even accurate ways of using condoms. I mean, I still hear people my age and older say that wearing two condoms will provide extra protection when all it does is increase friction between the condoms and raising the risk of them tearing for sure.

    So let schools do what they do best, teach your kids. Give them the tools needed to protect themselves or all you'll do is leave them at the mercy of ignorance.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
  72. Moncada

    Lets get something straight. $ex before marriage is wrong, homo$exuality is wrong and I do say this with religious influence (mainly $ex before marriage.) You Democrats don't get it. A nation with people that will have intercourse before marriage is disgusting, we need to teach abstinence to support the belief of no $ex before marriage.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
  73. Devin A.

    blah blah blah.......shut up stupid people. funny you all get mad at abstinence but you are all for dudes doing each other in the butt. you liberals are like a plague.

    March 13, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • Moncada

      Right on that, Liberals are some twisted people.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • Patiat

      When two gay dudes have sex, just how does it affect YOU? Are you trying to watch?

      March 13, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Eric

      damn conservatives are just plain stupid. thinking theres some magic guy in the sky watching our every move. Guess god has a problem with voyeurism

      March 13, 2012 at 8:40 pm |
    • larryb

      abstinence is just fine...when it works but more often than not you get people pretending up till they start showing...like bristol palin

      March 14, 2012 at 1:45 am |
  74. Moncada

    Good job Utah, the Democrats are all crying right now, Utah should lead the country in morality. We should all oppose sex before marriage.

    March 13, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
  75. Uniema

    They are pretty accurate... its really hard to get pregnant if you dont have sex. To bad, I was hoping parents might have to step up and fill in the blanks... but most of you feel that a stranger is a better candidate. Most of us learn from the web anyway... your just beating a dead horse.

    March 13, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
  76. EB

    Watch us in Utah...we're proudly marching towards the 1900's!

    March 13, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Uniema

      They are pretty accurate... its really hard to get pregnant if your abstentant. To bad, I was hoping parents might have to step up and fill in the blanks... but most of you feel that a stranger is a better candidate.

      March 13, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
  77. Baffled by religious people

    Mormons don't need sex-ed as long as they're wearing their magical underwear. It can protect them from satan, bullets, fire...why not sperm?

    March 13, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
  78. Q

    So when are we going to teach kids about sex and their bodies? Their wedding night? Sex ed is not about encouraging kids to go out and have sex, it is about teaching them how their bodies work, how to be healthy, and how to take control of their lives and not live in ignorance like previous generations did. We teach kids about exercise, healthy eating, and emotional and mental health. Why should we not teach them about sexual health as well? We are sexual creatures, get over it.

    March 13, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
  79. bob

    Religion is pure evil and Christians are the worst. What a horrible religion this jesus cult is. Their god is ignorance

    March 13, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • Uniema

      Bob... Bad Troll is Bad.

      March 13, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • Devin A.

      pure evil??? man you are so stupid. someone should punch your retarded mother for bringing you into this world.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:06 pm |
    • Moncada

      Like Science is so good. Some advancements are great but others threaten the entire human race.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
      • Jorge

        Riiiight...let's burn all science books, treat all diseases with prayer and exorcism, say the world is flat and persecute anyone that insists we do otherwise as a heretic...where the hell am I living??? SHEESH!

        March 14, 2012 at 7:42 am |
  80. Festeiam

    UTAH, why is this not surprising. They try to live the 19th century in the 21 st century.

    March 13, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • ldsmom02

      I don't believe you are right, but even if you were, they didn't have very many sexually communicated diseases in the early 1900s. You know, like AIDS.

      March 13, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
  81. Devin A.

    stop being so consumed with having sex taught in schools. who cares???? what difference does it make? parents should teach their children what right looks like. stop getting up in arms about something we should be teaching our kids. but i guess most of you tards just want someone else to do everything for you. this issue should be praised as a case of a state being able to govern itself and not being regulated by the federal government. why is it wrong for a state to say we are gonna teach our kids to refrain from intercourse outside of marriage? and why do we say that is wrong but then praise states for legalizing and promoting gay marriage? seriously screwed up when abstinence is a concept less accepted than dudes getting busy with other dudes. yikes.

    March 13, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
  82. Baffled by religious people

    A co-worker of mine was telling me how she agrees with this whole idiotic idea. I replied "but you were MARRIED at 16! You were having sex as a teenager and popping out babies!" Her response "yes but we waited until our wedding night!"

    This is what baffles me about religious people. They claim that everything is sinful except when they do it. Yes she was married, but she also had a very sad life and was so relieved when her husband died after their 40 year marriage and 12 kids. I asked her if she would want her granddaughter to marry at 16 and she said "of course not but she can suppress those urges until her wedding like I did."
    She's been drinking the kool-aid her whole life and now it wont leave her system.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  83. Devin A.

    stop being so consumed with having sex taught in schools. who cares???? what difference does it make? parents should teach their children what right looks like. stop getting up in arms about something we should be teaching our kids. but i guess most of you tards just want someone else to do everything for you. this issue should be praised as a case of a state being able to govern itself and not being regulated by the federal government. why is it wrong for a state to say we are gonna teach our kids to refrain from intercourse outside of marriage? and why do we say that is wrong but then praise states for legalizing and promoting homosexuality? seriously screwed up when abstinence is a concept less accepted than dudes getting busy other dudes in the rear. yikes.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
  84. Devin A.

    stop being so consumed with having sex taught in schools. who cares???? what difference does it make? parents should teach their children what right looks like. stop getting up in arms about something we should be teaching our kids. but i guess most of you idiots just want someone else to do everything for you. this issue should be praised as a case of a state being able to govern itself and not being regulated by the federal government. why is it wrong for a state to say we are gonna teach our kids to refrain from sex outside of marriage? and why do we say that is wrong but then praise states for legalizing and promoting homosexuality. seriously screwed up when abstinence is a concept less accepted than dudes doing other dudes in the rear end. holy crap you liberals suck.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
  85. Mark

    The level of fatalistic thinking displayed on here is truly staggering. I didn't realize that so many people held to the misguided notion that teens were simply dying to jump into bed, and would absolutley stop at nothing to have $ex....so might as well make it easy for them. Yeah, let's give em the condoms, let's show them provacative videos in the classroom....heck why don't we just start renting hotel rooms for them also. I mean, after all...they're going to do it anyway....right? Let's apply this kind of thinking to some other teenage acitivities...
    1. Teens are gonna smoke, let's hand out packs (no...make it cartons) of cigarettes at school.
    2. Teens are gonna text and drive, so let's encourage them to do at at every opportunity.
    3. Teens are gonna be irresponsible. Let's enable them. Don't expect anything from them. Don't teach them to work. Let's just let them do whatever they want.

    Way to go Utah!!!!!!

    March 13, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • derock

      so by your reasoning, people can't have sex without a condom and if we don't give them one then they won't have sex. Teens are going to be irresponsible (like having unsafe sex?) so by teaching contraception we are enabling unsafe sex??? You have very illogical reasoning.

      March 13, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • Uniema

      Honestly as a student... it doesnt really matter what you do. Teach us or dont... we arn't stupid... just reckless.

      March 13, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
      • Bored321

        That and even if its taught most of us probably wont care, many just don't care right know.

        March 13, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • PastD

      Only one way to know for sure – start the studies now that will look for a rise (or fall – to be an unbiased study) in rates of teen pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, abortions, children in need of adoption, ....etc.
      Having been a teen once upon time myself, and a parent to several over the last decade (all great kids that do well in school, don't do drugs, etc). I would not be surprised to see all of these on the rise if this law passes. We just do not live in the same times that we once did and should not be burying our heads in the sand ignoring the realities of the times. Even if these behaviors are avoided during high school – as young adults off to college the pressures will be even greater, and without knowledge given during high school, I suspect this may be where we see the numbers start to climb.

      March 13, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Rigel54

      No, Mark, it's more like teens are going to text and drive, so lets make sure that they use seat belts and air bags. More like, cigarettes will be available, so make sure they know the risks that they carry. You prefer to confront risks with ignorance and misinformation, and ensure that the "evil children" suffer the consequences that they deserve.

      Will all teens explore sex? No. Most? Yes, at some level. Mark, you must either be too young to know, old enough to have forgotten, brain damaged, or possessed by one of the many mentally incapacitating fantasy system that imagine medieval demigods running the universe.

      March 13, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • Clinton Bunch

      Right, because telling a teenager they're not old enough to do something, has a great track record of convincing them not to do it. Teenagers are, in general, in a hurry to grow up, and frequently feel their parents are holding them back. This appears to be a necessary stage in development to help modify the parent-child bond, so that the child no longer expects the parent to do everything for them and make every decision for them.

      March 14, 2012 at 3:18 am |
    • le Sigh

      You sir, are a moron. I can't stand this constant "next logical conclusion" argument that is getting more an more popular.

      We teach kids about the consequences of of all of those actions and, they make their own decisions.

      Giving a kid a condom does not guarantee that he will participate. He can walk into any store and buy them anyway, or get them online but the fact he is going to have sex remains if he's made that decision. So now that he doesn't know about the consequences of his actions or thinks he does because he got some bad info from a google search. It's shameful that you think that just telling kids not to is good enough for them.

      March 14, 2012 at 7:00 am |
  86. M.E.

    It'll be interesting if it goes through for sure. In the heavily LDS areas I doubt it's much of a worry, but the health and diseases aspect still deserves time. Contraception is still used in the context of marriage even in large LDS families so it's worth knowing about too. Unfortunately, I think the non-LDS kids will suffer if this goes through.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • ldsmom02

      I feel sorry for any child who doesn't have some form of moral guidance to chart their course. You worry about the non-LDS kids? Maybe so. But, if you are worried it is because they have parents that don't care enough to teach them any type of values that will help them avoide

      March 13, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
      • larryb

        who needs sex education in utah...before their first menstrual cycle half the girls are married to their great uncle

        March 14, 2012 at 1:41 am |
  87. Devin A.

    who cares what utah legislation says. i think it's great that a state is taking a different approach than just the "hand em all condoms and pills and let em bang each others brain out" way of thinking. why does the year being 2012 mean that people have to check their morals and values at the door? why does standing opposed to perceived immoral behavior mean someone is living in the 1950s? i find this progressive movement towards the mentality of "all is permitted and should be accepted" is so so stupid and will eventually bite us in the butt. you liberals really suck. and school is not the place to talk about sex. that should be the responsibility of the parents. and you know what??? if the parents aren't responsible enough and their kid gets knocked up then tough luck. maybe people taking responsibility for their own actions might become not such a foreign term.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
  88. Ray Willis

    When I was young into my late 20's I was an active socialist activist. I did not have sex in High School. That was out of control bourgeois activity. I got married the second month after undergraduate college and we had our first child a year later. I had had only on regrettable sexual encounter while at college before I got married. Maybe the old leftist values were better than the New Leftist values.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
  89. bikermiker

    The US has the highest teen pregnancy rate of any industrialized nation primarily because ot these 'let's all put our head in the sand and not talk about it' policies. In the end, biology will win and I'm sure Utah will cement their place as the State with the highest teen pregnancy rate in the country – that would make them number one in all of the world's industrialized nations. It's good to be number one in something – ignorance and teen pregnancy rates!! Good luck Utah.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
  90. cpc65

    Abstinence-only sex education. Right. That ALWAYS works. Just like the bible is always right about EVERYTHING, especially the parts the contradict one another.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm |
  91. Michael B.

    Okay, here's the deal. I am from Utah, and these are my thoughts. (And just to be clear, I don't care at all for this bill)

    1. Sex is not bad. In fact, by teaching abstinence only, you're essentially saying that sex is bad and don't do it. I have heard that some people who abstained before marriage finally get married, and then feel guilty on their wedding night because "sex is wrong and bad". So, in order for that to change, kids need to learn that sex isn't bad, it's just something so good that you shouldn't use these, basically, "creation" powers, unless it's with someone that you plan on spending forever with. That being said,
    2. I think it is the parents duty to teach their children about their bodies. That they'll be going through changes. But parents also should be teaching them the morals of this amazing part of our body. It isn't something that you just go around doing everyone because you can. It's supposed to be something special.

    So... I think it's up to parents to really tell them about sex, don't expect the schools to do all the teaching, so I would rather not teach abstinence only in schools. Knowledge is power, and if you don't teach that there are safe ways of having sex, some people who do not get taught at home by their parents are going to experiment, and now, uh oh! They have no idea on how to be safe!

    March 13, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
  92. BGL

    Children should know how their bodies work and should be taught about sex and all its consequences. The truth is that parents should be doing this, but many of them are not. Which is why schools felt the need to get involved in the first place. I personally feel that nobody under the age of 18 is ready for sex, but the choice is individual for everyone. I don't think a person can make that choice appropriately with inadequate information. Children have a right to know how their bodies work; I don't see how anybody can deny that. They also need to know that there are ways of preventing disease and unwanted pregnancy. And, yes, I would include simple abstinence as one of those options. But I just don't see how you can talk about sex and not talk about all the issues with it.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
  93. dudley0514

    "Don't have sex!!?? You're trying to brainwash my 13 year old daughter into a god-drone who burns people alive at the stake!! A-A-A-A-A-H-H-H-H-H-H!!!!!!!!!!"

    Then the name calling.

    Yats.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
  94. dudley0514

    One state in 50 that takes a purely individual-responsibility stance, suggests that sex is a big step for adolescents not to be taken lightly, and that the only way to make absolutely sure a young woman does not become pregnant before she really wants to is not to have sex.

    This does not sound like a theocracy to me, though overblown argument form the left of center group have a way of trying to turn every argument that does not agree with theirs into a catastrophe of armageddon-like proportions. "Don't have sex!!?? You're trying to brainwash my grandchildren into mindless, Salem, Massachusettes-like god-drones that burn people alive at the stake!!! A-A-A-H-H-H-H-H-!!!!!!"

    Yats.

    Then the name calling.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
  95. dudley0514

    One state in 50 that takes a purely individual-responsibility stance, suggests that sex is a big step for adolescents not to be taken lightly, and that the only way to make absolutely sure a young woman does not become pregnant before she really wants to is not to have sex.

    This does not sound like a theocracy to me, though overblown argument form the left of center group have a way of trying to turn every argument that does not agree with theirs into a catastrophe of armageddon-like proportions. "Don't have sex!!?? You're trying to brainwash my grandchildren into mindless, Salem, Massachusettes-like god-drones that burn people alive at the stake!!! A-A-A-H-H-H-H-H-!!!!!!"

    Yats.

    The the name calling.

    March 13, 2012 at 6:15 pm |
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