College cuts its tuition by 33%
by Donna Krache, CNN
(CNN)– If you’re a parent with college-age kids, you probably experienced sticker shock the first time you checked out tuition costs. And maybe even a few times after that.
The College Board says that the average yearly cost for a four-year public university for an in-state student is now $8,240. For a private college, it’s $28,500 per year.
William Thierfelder, president of Belmont Abbey College, says that most students are so discouraged with what he calls the "sticker price" of higher education that they don’t even consider applying to a school they think is beyond their families’ means.
So Belmont Abbey is taking a different approach: The college has announced that it is "resetting" its tuition, reducing it by 33% next fall for incoming freshmen and transfer students.
The old sticker price for one year at this small private college near Charlotte, North Carolina was about $27,600. The new price will be $18,500.
Thierfelder told CNN that the college had been working on a tuition reset for about two years, and that he was able to reduce tuition with their adult education program 8 years earlier.
Why is Belmont Abbey cutting tuition? "It seemed a little bit like madness, with costs going up each year, We were raising tuition each year, only to give it back on the financial aid side to help students be able to afford it," Thierfelder told CNN. "It’s time to stop the madness."
Thierfelder says that a dozen or more colleges have reduced their tuition, and he thinks more will follow this trend.
"When I tell people we’re doing this, they don’t say 'that’s crazy', they say 'that's great, why isn't everybody doing this?'" said Thierfelder.
What about the potential negative impact of reduced tuition on instruction and class sizes? Thierfelder says there won’t be any, or he would not have taken this action. He says the college has an outstanding faculty and quality students, and will continue its athletic and theater programs as well as its honors institute.
And according to Thierfelder, there are no plans to increase enrollment. The current undergraduate enrollment at Belmont Abbey is about 900, with an additional 800 in the adult education program.
When asked if the lower tuition would be offset by lower financial aid, Thierfelder told CNN, "Certainly we will recalculate financial aid proportionally, but by lowering [tuition], it's a real benefit to the student. The actual price is lower. Even if they paid full boat, no one would pay more than $18,500. Before, our tuition was $27,600."
Thierfelder pointed out that next year the college was actually considering another tuition increase. He said he asked himself, “How can anyone afford this, and when does it stop?”
"My hope is that this will give hope to students and their parents," said Thierfelder.
Related: Student News
CNN Student News is ten minutes of commercial-free, cost free news for middle and high school classrooms. It is available on line on our website, as a free downloadable podcast on iTunes and on HLN at 4:00 a.m. ET weekdays during the school year. Go to www.CNNStudentNews.com@CNNSchools on Twitter
Favorite Videos
Heya i am for the primary time here. I came across this board and I to find It really useful & it helped me out a lot. I hope to present something again and aid others like you aided me.
"Tuition at all USA colleges and universities are driven higher and higher, by foreign students who are willing to pay anything for a USA education."-
SUUUREE they are, that's it, blame everything that's wrong with this picture on foreigners, instead of eyeballing the real problems with education in the U.S. That strategy is working WONDERS with every other issue in this country, isn't it?
West Texas A&M University just cut their out of state tuition by 55%. Now it's just $7,600 for students from any state in the nation, a heck of a lot more of a cut than Belmont Abbey College....and a lot less!
James,
You cannot compare a state-funded university with a private college. BAC only generates about one-third the revenue that WT A&M does.
All things considered, I think BAC deserves the acknowledgement, as does WT A&M, and any other college/university that recognizes the need to curb the cost of higher education. That should be the point and not 'who gets a better deal where'.
Hmmm – Collegeboard states " that the average yearly cost for a four-year public university for an in-state student is now $8,240. For a private college, it’s $28,500 per year." I wonder where they got those figures. UMass Amherst in-state cost is $25,000±. The average private college we looked at (non-Ivy League, not Division 1 sports), cost was $40,000 to $58,000.
Cost is what you actually pay, not the 'price tag'. The EFC (Expected Family Contribution) derived from your FAFSA application is a more accurate guideline. When my son was getting ready for college, our family ECF was roughly $25k. That was what the out-of-pocket cost would be, regardless of how much the college charged – – the balance would be covered by financial aid. When he chose Duke (total cost about $54k/year) it was no more expensive than had he selected his in-state option ($25k tuition and housing, with zero financial aid). Any Ivy league school would have been cheaper still!
Many fail to realize that the more expensive and prestigious schools are still affordable – – if your family income is below $80k, going to Harvard would cost NOTHING! Other colleges, such as Cooper Union, provide 100% tuition scholarships to every admitted student, regardless of financial need. No reason for anyone not to attend the best school for their intended field.
I think the numbers they are citing are tuition alone. As the parent of a senior in high school I have seen that many of the private schools in my area run about $40,000 per year, but that is tuition, room, board, fees, books, etc. The $8K figure for state schools is likewise just tuition.
I am an engineer, I like to look at things in their limits. If education gets expensive enough it will further separate the society from the rich. Only the very rich will be able to afford to send their children to colleges. Even with grants and loans, those coming out of college are handicapped by their debts. It will take years for them to pay them off. Its not a good time fiscally in America.
This is already happening. I'm one of those college graduates "handicapped" by my debt. My husband and I have no car loans, no credit cards, no house payments, no debt - except a heaping pile of student loans. Between my husband's student loans and my own, we owe close to $100,000. We ended up having to file Chapter 13 to stop the calls because, even though we were making payments, we weren't paying what they wanted. We make great money in comparison to most people we know, but while they are going out and buying new cars, buying nice houses, we're renting a house and driving the same car. Their education was minimal, while our education, atleast on paper, was exceptional. With the bankruptcy, which is completely voluntary, we're paying half my salary directly to the court. Thankfully, within the next three years, our debt will be completely gone. However, had we not done this, I hate to think what we might have done. We were good kids who got good grades and tried to get ahead. We didn't always make the best money decisions, but we certainly didn't go out and build up massive credit card debt or other debts. We tried to play it smart. We got behind due to a sudden illness that put my husband out of work for several months. We tried diligently to work with our creditors, but it didn't matter. They didn't care what we had to say. We paid off the medical bills, but the student loan interest kept building and compounding. It's a never-ending cycle. We're hoping that once the bankruptcy has ended, we can take the $1500 a month we pay now and start saving that for our two kids' education. Lord knows they will need all the help they can get! It doesn't make sense any more to go to college. Not unless you're already rich enough to pay for the crazy tuition costs.
What I find interesting is that it is $150 for English Comp at my local Community College, but $2,500 for the same class, with the same book, at my local University.....hmmmm.
Obama was promising to raise college tuition further recently. He was saying that he wanted to flood more money into aid, which of course is exactly why tuition rates have skyrocketed, blowing past cost of living increase, because there are much more dollars bidding on the same number of college seats. So once again we see the government hurt the very people it intended to help. Obama;s plan will in fact make college less affordable to students who are the most price sensitive. Thanks!
@Steve Please do rest of us a big favor. Shut up.
Amen
College tuition rates have gone up because keeping a university functional is a lot of money. It's not like the 10,000 computers, grade A teaching staff, research facilities (like a particle collider) are free. As a student currently in college its been extremely evident where every single dollar of my tuition went, it has nothing to do with federal aid.
granted that has something to do with it Ethan, but would you try to cut your prices if people kept paying. The point Steve is making is that guaranteed financial aid and loans are making colleges lazy when it comes to making their budgets and trying to keep costs down, which leads to higher tuition costs. This school apparently realized that because of a good school president and has fixed the issue themselves.
somewhere there is a Teacher saying "Steve, never paid attention in class"
Steve, you're probably in need of a college education. Get one and get off your hate filled soapbox.
Good point Steve. Despite what others are saying, it is easy to look at the facts, and figures combined with a little common sense to realize that financial aid and loans are being guaranteed to students which means the colleges don't have to be as vigilant in their efforts to keep cost down. Why should a college take a hard look at their budget and try to cut tuition costs when no matter how much they charge, financial aid and loans keep pouring in?
Now we see students upset with some dropping enrollment rates as students finally start to realize that graduating with 100k in debt for a bachelors degree in sociology or communications or anything else for that matter is a ripoff and not worth the cost. tuition is naturally going to begin to come down, this bubble is starting to burst.
I graduated in Computer Science from a well known University in the USA. I came here as a F-1 Student after my HS from (U guess). U guessed it right- From India.
here is what my opinions are about two countries USA and India:
US Colleges and Cultures teach kids how to be creative. And that's why we have Founders of Facebook, Google, MS, Oracle so on.. and so forth
India- they only generate Modern day Slaves that these well known companies in the USA needs. and That's why they have companies i.e Infosys, TATA Consultancy so on and so forth.....
Here is the reason why these 2 countries create totally different types of Species-
India is Poor- yea, I know you have billionaires and millionaires- but 70% of the people are under paid and poor- I mean very poor.
YOU CAN NOT BE CREATIVE WHEN NO FOOD ON YOUR STOMACH.
To be creative- you need to take chances/risk- and you will not take risk when you have nothing to fall back on.
you know, you are going to a Well known Indian college with your father's hard saving money- and there is no way you will quit college and dream about starting something that your parents will think (Actually everyone) stupid which could become a giant money maker- world famous Facebook.
Here in the USA- Gov system works- Tax that we pay will come back to us one way or another- kids can be creative- take chances/risk- because they have something to fall back on- the very good GOD US GOV- thank god.
in India- system is broken and does not work-
So, listen all the Indians and before making any bad comment about US education, and who thinks his White boss does not know anything.
let me tell you this! he knows a lot. he even knows how many times you go to the Strip clubs and weather you went last night or not.
You need to go back home to India and take a computer science job in the booming Indian IT job market freeing up a job for an American in the US.
Maybe he should stay here and create jobs for Americans. Check into who founded Google. Our "patriotic" landed gentry are gutting American companies every chance they get.
usually I don't follow any blogs... Since I am in a conference and staying in a Hotel, I have plenty of time after work.
I become a US citizen and a registered Democrat
hoapres- you can work in my company- I need someone who can take out the trash and vacuum
Hoapres, nobody owes you a DAMN THING.
Interesting insight. Sorry hoapres is an idiot.
I agree with you. I'm an immigrant too... it's amazing your insights are similar to mine.
Online university is where we are headed. Good idea for those huge first and second year classes. The online resources are quite excellent. Just as good, if not better than in-class.
Whether distance learning is as good or better than classroom learning depends on the individual. Different students have different learning styles and there exists more than one spectrum of learning styles.
One set of learning styles is {visual, auditory, kinesthetic}. Read/write might be a 4th or it might be part of visual.
Another set is {individual, collaborative}.
We can predict that a person who has a combination of visual and individual learning styles should do better at a distance learning school than at an onsite school. But a collaborative auditory learner should do better in a classroom than online.
I have consistently done worse in every online class that I have ever taken, and the thought of moving to an online university system terrifies me because of it.
i am from india, 70 percent people from india and china are coming with full funding from parents who have saved there money from entire life earnings , it is a problem with american culture who are not having the tradition of savings for there childrens in term of contributing to there graduation education, even if they start saving 300 dollar a month from the kids early age it will solve there burden on there education, i think americans need to focus with repubican principles of financial conservative principles, instead of spending on ten similar electronic gadgets, in the name of thanks giving buying useless thousands of dollars product which they use not even 3-4 times, i think if they start thinking in terms of small savings which will eliminate the financial burden on students who want to pursue there higher education.
So did your parents tell you that you were going to be a doctor or a lawyer?
By the looks of his/her logic and spelling, more like the typical crappy motel, liquor store, or convenience store owner.
You are absolutely correct!
Though Americans may benefit the most from this "long term thinking" shift, I think it's needed everywhere! Sure a great number of us is suffering to make ends meet, but we certainly could live without half of the things we spend our money on every year!!
Sad to see you embrace repub principles.... about as far from reality as you can get.
And I saw a lot of Indian students cheat their faces off when I went through engineering. However, it doesn't mean all Indian students are cheating. Before you negative blanket statements about American families you should understand that negative behavior exists in all societies.
CCC–So how do you think India has grown so much, so fast and made so many Indian lives better?? I'll tell you how–because Americans and the rest of the world are buying two and three of the same gadget every year! You complain about the very hand that feeds you, incredulous. And why is it that you didn't stay in your perfect India to finish your education? I mean, India obviously has the better system, right? I mean, no Indians ever come to the U.S. to be educated and to start a business and to live their lives, right? No, no, no, they all stay in India where it is so much more perfect, morally superior and just better all around people. Riiiiiight. India is the armpit of the world. It stinks to high heaven and it is the filthiest country I have ever been to (and I've traveled world-wide for business so I've seen many other societies). If you feel the U.S. is so "off track" why do you stay?
I graduated in Computer Science from a well known University in the USA. I came here as a F-1 Student after my HS from (U guess). U guessed it right- From India.
here is what my opinions are about two countries USA and India:
US Colleges and Cultures teach kids how to be creative. And that's why we have Founders of Facebook, Google, MS, Oracle so on.. and so forth
India- they only generate Modern day Slaves that these well known companies in the USA needs. and That's why they have companies i.e Infosys, TATA Consultancy so on and so forth.....
Here is the reason why these 2 countries create totally different types of Species-
India is Poor- yea, I know you have billionaires and millionaires- but 70% of the people are under paid and poor- I mean very poor.
YOU CAN NOT BE CREATIVE WHEN NO FOOD ON YOUR STOMACH.
To be creative- you need to take chances/risk- and you will not take risk when you have nothing to fall back on.
you know, you are going to a Well known Indian college with your father's hard saving money- and there is no way you will quit college and dream about starting something that your parents will think (Actually everyone) stupid which could become a giant money maker- world famous Facebook.
Here in the USA- Gov system works- Tax that we pay will come back to us one way or another- kids can be creative- take chances/risk- because they have something to fall back on- the very good GOD US GOV- thank god.
in India- system is broken and does not work-
So, listen you are a indian who works in IT and who thinks his White boss does not know anything.
let me tell you this! he knows a lot. he even knows how many times you go to the Strip clubs and weather you went last night or not.
And you are probably an H1B having MY IT job.
if you were good, you wouldn't loose your job to someone else
@HobaRma – That's a very naive statement. In fact, you couldn't be more off base. It's often the people who DO excel at their jobs who find themselves "outsourced" because these people are a larger cost. So these higher salary, higher benefits people are the first to be shown the door as companies "downsize" by finding someone ALMOST as skilled but who will work for a third of the cost.
Anyone working today knows it's not about skills or performance anymore. It's plain "cost benefit analysis". If someone in management thinks you're earning too much and they can hire someone at a fraction of the cost, it doesn't matter how good of an employee you are. You're replaced.
Oh boo hoo. In 2003 I lost an 18 year industrial construction management job. I could've blamed Bush for letting the economy tank, or Clinton for signing NAFTA, or my boss for not forecasting which way the market was headed, but it just HAPPENED. Instead of bi*ching and moaning I went back to school, which got me back working and making a paycheck. When this job (8 years so far) gives out I'll go to school again, or apply elsewhere, or sell hot dogs and be my own boss, ANYTHING but sit on my buns and whine about "who took my job, *snivel* ".
I have done BS and MS in Florida. I did two years college in India. The cost of going to college per year in India is around $2k ( best colleges), i.e. $8k for four years. I transferred to Florida Atlantic University, the cost of 1 semester i.e. just 4 courses was $12000. Here is my take on some of this:
The college ran very big buildings larger than needed.
Spent about a quarter million on just maintaining plantation
Made a million dollar building for the head
While they were increasing tuitions on everyone, they were increasing spending on the football team by millions
Millions spent on Football. I wonder why everyone should bear the burden of football team when all we seek is a degree.
All 10s of building running AC 24/7 365 days
Running dorms. People manager their spaces better for less.
I found colleges not distracted with other things such as student government, functions, parties, grants, awards, football, soccer etc. rather than focusing on education first.
If at all, extra curricular activities should be run only out of profits rather than extracting money out of students.
AA-
Universities don't exist in a vacuum. The cost of living in Florida and the U.S. is much higher than the cost of living in India. It's fatuous to compare the costs between the two nations. As for money for the football program – while earning my Master's and Ph.D., I worked in the athletic department of a large, public university. The football program pays for itself, for the costs of other sports, and also for many scholarships for non-athlete students from families who can't afford college costs. So, how many needy students get paid scholarships from those athletic programs at universities in India? And if India is getting this right, why did you go to school here at all? Doesn't India have the best universities in the world, since they clearly know more than Americans about funding them? And why wouldn't a disciplined and intellectually-honest graduate do a little research before making a completely mistaken complaint about how football programs are funded at American universities?
Bravo, AA!
AA, although a college education may cost $2K in India, it's well known American businesses would not consider degrees earned in India as acceptable. This is likely the reason you sought education in the U.S. I can tell you now: Americans are not racing to India for college education, especially because of the cost.
I graduated in Computer Science from a well known University in the USA. I came here as a F-1 Student after my HS from (U guess). U guessed it right- From India.
here is what my opinions are about two countries USA and India:
US Colleges and Cultures teach kids how to be creative. And that's why we have Founders of Facebook, Google, MS, Oracle so on.. and so forth
India- they only generate Modern day Slaves that these well known companies in the USA needs. and That's why they have companies i.e Infosys, TATA Consultancy so on and so forth.....
Here is the reason why these 2 countries create totally different types of Species-
India is Poor- yea, I know you have billionaires and millionaires- but 70% of the people are under paid and poor- I mean very poor.
YOU CAN NOT BE CREATIVE WHEN NO FOOD ON YOUR STOMACH.
To be creative- you need to take chances/risk- and you will not take risk when you have nothing to fall back on.
you know, you are going to a Well known Indian college with your father's hard saving money- and there is no way you will quit college and dream about starting something that your parents will think (Actually everyone) stupid which could become a giant money maker- world famous Facebook.
Here in the USA- Gov system works- Tax that we pay will come back to us one way or another- kids can be creative- take chances/risk- because they have something to fall back on- the very good GOD US GOV- thank god.
in India- system is broken and does not work-
So, listen AA you are a indian who works in IT and who thinks his White boss does not know anything.
let me tell you this! he knows a lot. he even knows how many times you go to the Strip clubs and weather you went last night or not.
Thank you for stating a real dollar amount, yes it is thousands per semester. This article's numbers were making me feel that I am over-spending. That imaginary 4 year price mentioned is nice to daydream about.
I am amazed that I didn't see anyone reference the cost of athletics at major university's as part of the tuition problem. First I must say I am a huge sports fan. but most athletic programs in this country don't make money, and at major university's it's worse. Football, a so called money maker is one of the biggest violaters. At Illinois, they are current'y paying several million dollars to three coaches who aren't there (head football, mens and womens basketball (the womens coach made 640,000yr)), and they are paying their replacements millions, that isn't counting the myriad of asst coaches (some colleges have over 20 assistant coaches for football. Then factor in equipment, travel expenses (most universities use planes and stay in hotel now. Illinois basketball team was just in maui. Think that's cheap, and think of how many sports there are. They travel too, and most of those don't sell tickets like the football and basketball teams do. This isn't just a problem at large universities. Even though yes small schools tend to pay their coaches less, they also don't have the enrollment, and still have some travel expenses. At large universities, regular students do pay for some of that. I'm not saying sports should go away, in fact i think the exact opposite, but a more regional schedule, and more resonable pay for coaching and limited staff levels would be a start. School is expensive, but people also should realize it's not only the education they are paying for, it's also the experience of a "controlled" step into the real world where kids have a somewhat supervised 4 to 5 yrs of being responsible for what they do.
John,
While it's true that "most athletic programs in this country don't make money," I think "and at major university's it's worse. Football, a so called money maker is one of the biggest violaters."
Do you have some source for your claim regarding football and major universities? I worked in the athletic department of a major public university while earning my graduate degrees and football paid for itself as well as the 'olympic sports' (track, swimming, diving, gymnastics, archery, etc.); in fact, football revenues paid for football and all other sports except for Men's Basketball (which paid for itself). More college football programs are profitable than not here in the U.S. and some pay for student scholarships for students other than athletes (those who couldn't otherwise afford to go); my university paid for scholarships based on need as well as the university's athletic expenses. So why do you describe football programs as 'so called' money makers and the worst violaters [sic]?
There's info here: http://sportsologist.com/college-athletics-by-the-number/ and here:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/07/09/how-much-do-football-wins-pay-off-for-a-college/
John, you mentioned a women's basketball coach makes $640,000, but you didn't mention the men's coaches' salaries. Why? You have a problem with women's coach's lower salary, but see no problem with the men's much higher salaries?
I believe the reason why is that he mentioned the male coaches made MILLIONS. He lumped the female coach into this arguement because she is apparently getting paid and not working there. But since she is not making MILLIONS, he listed a dollar amount so people understand that she is not making MILLIONS. It seems to me that he has a problem with all of their salaries, especially when they are getting paid and not working there.
Hmmmmm . MIT & Stanford ( where one could expect and engineering degree with good employment ) is about $40K / year ,
so for the Regular priced ( $27K ) at Belmont ( which I have not previously heard of ) I would expect some similar ( altho not equal ) ed .
What kind of degrees do they offer for this tuition ( or the new reduced one ) ? ? ?
http://www.belmontabbeycollege.edu/academics/programs/majors/majors.aspx
Online college courses are the wave of the future. It's how kids learn nowadays anyway. It's silly that every college needs to hire its own faculty to teach 100 and 200 level courses. Why not instead find some super gifted talented professors who teach well, make video recordings of their classes, and let student at all colleges take these classes for credit? Granted, there are details to figure out, like how to administer tests, etc. but it's just a matter of time before this gets figured out.
I totally agree with you. To add to your ideas; college courses should be restructured so that one year of academic work equates to three months of on-campus work, with the rest of the time devoted to online work. Work experience is now the key. You can always learn all the little niceties that you pick-up in college through online continuing education. The internet has totally changed the ballgame.
Price cut to $18K per year ? OUCH . . .
Alas , my friends who make a $100K can't actually afford to pay 20% of their income since the IRS and mortgage still get their cuts too .
I guess maybe the $200K a year group can now afford this college ?
Just curious , are the teachers well paid or is this a high admin cost thing ?
The only comment I would have is that maybe, just maybe, young people and their parents should have in-depth discussions about how this will be paid back after they graduate. I have no sympathy for anyone who takes on new debts such as mortgages, new cars etc. and then would state a concern about how they are supposed to afford their college loans, especially when they make the kind of money your talking about; 100K. That sort of salary goes an awful long in most parts of this country if one manages their money properly.
As I see, the problems we all blame the US education system is due to these myths that have been created (and sustained) by various interested parties that benefit from the current flawed system:
1) EVERYONE CAN EARN A COLLEGE DEGREE – clearly this is NOT true, some should attend vocational training for associate degrees at community colleges at a fraction of the cost
2) YOU MUST HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE TO GET ANY JOB – Not true, a skilled machinist will earn more than many degreed jobs
2) YOU MUST GRADUATE FROM A PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITY TO BE A SUCCESS – This is all image driven BS
3) THE HUGE AMOUNTS YOU PAY IN TUITION IS ALL WORTH IT IN THE LONG RUN – You do the math and see
4) ANY COLLEGE DEGREE WOULD DO TO GET A JOB – Degrees in Arts History, Sociology, Psychology etc are less rigorous degrees that attract a lot of lazy students who do not belong in a university. The universities MUST reduce/limit the number of students who can sign up for these degrees.
Oops! Sorry, my numbering got messed up during editing of my comment. Please, no smart Alec comments on that.
No, Pragmatist, it doesn't work that way. First off, there are hardly any machinist jobs anymore; less than 1/40th of 30 years ago. Second, there are so many people out there getting a job, the only way to reduce the numbers of resumes an employer has to sort through is by requiring everyone to have a college degree; they've been doing that for years. What our country DOES desperately need, however is a seriously effective system to match up the upcoming available jobs to the kids STARTING college, so they don't end up sweating and paying for four years to get a job that everyone else is trying to get, too, or one that goes overseas shortly.
i'm an art history major and i work hard. *sniff*
That's great, if you want to be a high school arts teacher.
There are plenty of extremely smart and hardworking people with psych degrees, my parents both have doctorates in the field of Psychology and the both have high paying jobs
Just curious, Mr. P-why do you believe degrees in the social sciences are "less rigorous'?
I agree that not everone is cut out for college but I went to college to get an education, not a job. A vocational school was not an option.
Do you typically shout after counting. Something to check into. I'm sure board of directors love their CFO's to have an art degree, makes sense then they can decor their cardboard boxes, I mean homes, yes interior design.
Since when has history degrees been for lazy students who shouldnt be in college? I have a BA in History, Philosophy Human Resources and a minor in Organizational Leadership and Supervision. At one point in my undergraduate career, I was taking 21 credit hours in a semester. So no the issue is not who does or does not deserve to be in college. What it boils down to is that hard working and determined students such as myself are getting the raw deal when we graduate.
What I will also say is that more students need to have the fighter spirit when they leave because that degree, that school name on that piece of paper is not going to ensure you ANY employment let alone good employment. I have friends who were on Deans list and all that jazz all through college and didnt have a clue once they left how to get a job and even went through depression because they didnt like the "real world". You just have to work your tail off plain and simple.
Getting a degree for the cost of a new car is not that big of a deal. Which do you think will get you farther ahead in the real world for the rest of your life?
A degree for the price of a car? 28,000 a year, not a degree. If everyone could run around buying 120,000 dollar cars without a degree I doubt anyone would go to college.
That cost was per year so Multiple that by 4 . Now how many people spend that on a car ?
Why is it when the government raises tuition assistance Colleges nearly double their price?
Because after World War II, the G.I. Bill became a huge incentive for colleges to scam as much from the government as they could. As the former military men graduated from college, they realized how much of an increase in money, power and prestige they had now, so they pushed their bright and not-so-bright kids into college, even if it wasn't the best choice for them. Their kids then became prime targets for new government tuition asistance programs to keep the gravy train rolling. Corporations needed middle management, government wanted to funnel college grads into fighting the new Cold War and higher education became a partner to them both while allowing mediocre adminstrators and teachers to thrive at the goverment teat. Just got worse as the years went by, no matter if conservative or liberal policies were in play. Somewhere along the line, people actually started to swallow the hype that a degree was available to anyone and was like Willie Wonka's Golden Ticket. Not much different than religion and the masses, just focused on the worship of money.
Why does college so much? Nobody ever asks that question. It’s always just "college costs too much". The reality is that college professors and administrators are making a fortune. Simple as that. Who are the biggest proponents of student loans? Colleges.
They need the cash and the don't give a rats patooey if you pay and pay forever. I know I will be. . .
.
You're kidding, right? Ignoring a few specialized areas like computer science, law, medicine, etc. that actually do pay halfway decently, most college professors are paid dirt. And a sizable percentage of college classes these days are taught by adjunct instructors who get paid on average about $3,000 per class. If you're unlucky enough to only have one or two classes per semester/quarter, you'd be financially better off flipping burgers.
And university administrators don't make that much more than faculty, typically. More, sure, but not remotely "a fortune". Now you could argue that there are too *many* administrators at many schools, and in many cases, you would be correct, but that's a completely different issue.
No, the reason universities are expensive is that there is a great deal of inherent inefficiency whenever you set up a budget system such that every penny not spent at the end of each fiscal year is lost and might be cut from your budget going forward. The system, as designed, encourages wasteful spending at every level by preventing administrators at any level below the top from saving their excess funds for future use. The resulting budgetary bleeding isn't caused by a single large laceration that you can point your finger at or even a handful of big-ticket expenses. It is caused by a million tiny cuts that each drip a drop of financial blood, but that add up to a small fortune. And you're never going to get it under control until you fix the fundamental flaws in the way those organizations manage their budgets.
The madness will stop and perhaps shift into reverse when enough JoeBlacks and their parents discover that the cost-benefits formula of going to college, realizing your dream and making more money just doesn't hold up for many students. There are many pathways to a successful life (whatever that is) other than college. Too bad apprenticeships aren't what they used to be.
JoeBlack,
I happen to be a college professor Joe and I went to school for half of my life and racked huge loan bills in order to make a shade more than my wife (a kindergarten teacher) makes. There are people making a fortune at universities (administrators primarily), but 99% of the faculty are not making that kind of money. Get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off!
For someone who is a college professor, your grammar is horrible. I would have loved to have a professor that didn't know what a run-on sentence is.
College Professors make a fortune? LOL
I went to community college and state university. I had too, my parents nor I could afford a private school. I worked full time and went to school at night. I got my degree in 5 years and had no loans and no debt when I graduated. This was in 1991. I worked with people who went to big schools and had student loans piled up so high they were in debt for years, some still are. Most employers could care less where you went to college, the degree is all that matters not the school name on the diploma.
Its the whole club thing,If you go to Yale it has traditions and a reputation. So other ivy league-rs will give club members a leg up over a community college applicant. Its high school cool verses dork and rich verse poor.
Expect to see more of this. With the number of college-age students declining, demand will drop, and the law of supply and demand kicks on.
$18,000 a year to go to Nobody-ever-heard-of-Abbey college? Better off getting in-state tuition rates at UNC.
Kudos to Belmot Abbey!! Thank goodness Republicans weren't able to cut pell grants...
I get it. It's all those dirty Republicans' fault. The problem is that we're spending 150% of what we take in in federal revenue. We don't have money for all the BS promises politicians are making. We can't afford it, and only the ignorant are silly enough to think that their pet project (in your case, higher education subsidies) is so important that it shouldn't be pared down to match what we can actually pay for. During the last four years, Obama's government spend $17,250 that we don't have (that's on top of your taxes) for every single man, woman, and child in this country. If you think that's sustainable, you'd better move to Colorado and keep smoking legally.
Did you go to college? Apparently, you didn't. We need more educated people in the country for the better future,not the selfish and narrow minded person like you.
Absolutely right, well said.
The universities are robbing our young by indebting them so severely before they are capable of earning income. Yes, they are the modern "Sheriffs of Nottingham".
The real culprit is that states are cutting their support of public universities, and universities have no choice but to recoup the lost revenue through tuition hikes. University spending per student is not increasing. In 1975, the states paid 60% of the cost of a year in college while families paid 33%. The federal government paid 7%. Today, the states pay only 34% and families pay 50% of the cost. Public education is disappearing from America and is being replaced by higher and higher tuition funded by higher amounts of student loans. This is the real cause of soaring tuition.
jeff,
If the increases in tuition were only from reduced state support (not increased spending) and your numbers are true, then tuition costs would have only increased by 50% + inflation over the last 37 years. College tuition increase have significantly exceeded that amount meaning that declining state support is not the only or major factor driving tuition costs.
I think the real cause of the escalating tuition fees is the same type of Western mental and ethical decay that has also corrupted other segment of our society. You can see this in the area of healthcare as well. The mentality is; if it is something that people want, then charge them heaven and earth for it. This goes a far to explain the high cost of doing business in the West, because these costs are built into any product or service that we sell. Why should the annual salary of a University President exceed that of the President of the United States?
Amana,
The issue with healthcare costs are people skipping out on the ER bill. The uninsured are what drive up the costs. What I heard from an EMS worker is they overcharge(inflate) to recoup from the 2 out of 3 that do not pay. The 3rd person basically absorbs the other 2 peoples charges.
There are a lot of privileged people on this board.
I'd like to say selfish people,they have the right to pursue their dreams but stop other to do the same.
I'm so tired of the "give it to the needy baloney"!!! let them pay their own way! When my kids went to college we were at the federal limit and could not get loans for our kids. I worked years putting my kids through college. That work included lifting 70 lb. worktation monitors, I'm 5'4", 135 lbs. Try that for awhile!!! My husband worked a ton of overtime with a serious heart disease!!!! The colleges are soaking people for everything they can get and many students are going to college just to live off of someone else as long as they can and run up hugh debts hoping the govt. will pick up the tab!
Funny I was thinking the same way. Esp considering I put my own dang self through college. How about Parents stop putting their kids through college make them get a job and pay their own way. Oh is that to radical for rightest parents.
I have no doubt that it was a long 4 years or more for you! Our kids did work hard, sometimes two jobs in the summer and they did work during the school year. They had to cover all extras over tuition, books, and housing, e.g., spending money, clothing, gas. It added up and they were frugal.
Sue,
How long has it been since your kids were in school? The federal limit is raised by 6% each year, so the relative cost to income ratio gets worse and worse. This private college is only slightly higher than Ohio State's tuition. 20 years ago, tuition was $3000 per year. Now it's a little over $10000 and going up every semester.
Please don't think I am disagreeing with you. I'm not. I have one kid that is two years from college and what she wants to do (pharmacy) is only offered as a six year program because the universities in Ohio have decided to soak us for all we have for another year or two because they make the rules.
John,
Yes, it has been awhile since my kids were in school. I probably sounded more cynical than I am, but I noticed since my kids went to school that every time the govt. was going to help more young people go to college that the schools would raise their prices way above the inflation rate. Therfore no headway was made to control costs, now student loans are underwater by $1T. I dread to think what it will cost my grand kids!
Pharmacy use to be 3 years of regular college, then a 2 year program. At least at UW Madison! Another year to get there now! Good luck to your child, it's a good profession!
I paid for my college education while I worked and paid for one child's college education and getting ready to start paying for another – all by myself since I'm separated. We live in a small 2 bedroom apartment with just a car to my name.
Why am I forced to pay for other people's kids' college education? The lack of college tuition loan repayment is ridiculous as the loan program approaches $1 Trillion ! ! ! And they want the government to pay? Who funds the government? My child in college didn't understand how other classmates could afford their educational expenses; she asked and found out that her classmates are not worried since they have NOT INTENTION of repaying their college loans ! ! ! !
Let go over the fiscal cliff together !
Oh, fear not. If one goes into default on a Student Loan, the government will garnish their wages for 15% for the rest of their lives or till their loans are paid in full...whichever comes first.
It sounds your kids were those that lived off you and your husband, no wonder you were so angry.
One of the big things imo is basically the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I know plenty of people that have purchased cars with financial aid. When you graduate HS you can get local scholarships, in KY we have a program that gets you up to $2,500/yr based upon good grades in HS, plus university scholarships in addition to FA. All these things combined should equal the cost of attendance, it shouldn't be paying you over the top. If you wind up with good scholarships, you can still get enough FA to cover tuition that you can just pocket, the system hemorrhages money to people who don't always need it
The solution for skyrocketing college is simple. Remove all financial aid. Federal assistance is the reason why college is so expensive. Every time financial aid increases, tuition follows.
Cut aid, watch the price of education come back to affordable levels.
Stan,
Wonderful idea if you allow for financial aid to the truly needy such as the poor, vets, and other people who would otherwise not be able to become better tax payers.
Vets would still qualify for the GI bill. Point still stands. Get rid of financial aid for the masses. College tuition prices would drop overnight.
Absolutely correct. Thank you.
This is the Bennett hypothesis, proposed during the Reagan administration by than education secretary William Bennett. The problem is that it has never been validated by research despite numerous studies looking at it. One of the major problems with that theory is that universities do not raise tuition and then spend that much more per student year on year like the Bennett hypothesis predicts. Instead, tuition is actually going up only to replace funding lost through declining state support. Tuition soars, but university spending largely remains flat, accounting for inflation, because it is replacing deep cuts to public education. States are abdicating their responsibility to public universities and families pay the price.
And how would someone like myself who wasn't privileged enough to go to a good high school (scholarships out), and to afford a 20k (private) or 8k (public) a year tuition supposed to afford college? I've worked my entire life while trying to support the inflated costs higher education requires. And my grades have shown this. Keep in mind this is with an intensive engineering program where working 40 hours a week and commuting an hour each way just isn't sustainable! Our professors would constantly tell us our inability to keep up was due to our jobs and that we should quit and go on loans!
People who do not understand this have obviously had a lot of help during schooling. My parents left me nothing. Is that my fault? I tried to make it through a difficult program that's actually worth something and it's my fault for not being able to afford the extra time needed? English, Psychology, and most Business majors need not reply. They're jokes with no real intellectual commitment required.
I was with you up until the end. There was really no need to insult people for the major they've chosen.
That is the whole point. If you remove financial aid, prices would drop dramatically and you could afford college. Right now college is not affordable for anyone. Myself included.
I already have a degree and paid 20k a year in tuition/fees, that was 20 years ago. I'm still paying off my college loans.
Today the kids going to the same school are graduating with 100k + in student loans.
I have 2 kids that I am saving for college now, they are 5 and 2.
I graduated from a top tier engineering school (with honors, plus a minor). I worked full time (40+ hrs) the entire way through (combo of internships, on campus jobs, and waiting tables at night). I took a full load of classes every semester. I did get a couple non-govt loans which I paid off within three years of graduation by living below my means. During school, I really had to skip on spending. I didn't get to go out like my friends, nor ever go on a spring break trip. I didn't even have a TV or cell phone. Don't say it can't be done. It can. You just have to want it bad enough to focus on the end goal.
My younger brothers went to community college for their first couple years of college before transferring to a big program, which signficantly reduced their expenses. I've also had numerous friends take 1-2 classes per term so they could afford school on their own. Takes them 6-7 years to finish, but they all stayed focused and got it done.
When my dad went to school in the early 80's, he went to one of the universities in the SUNY system of New York. He came from a blue-collar family in Staten Island (my granddad was a cop), graduated, became a stock broker in NYC (he closed the largest stock deal in the history of his firm) before moving to Chicago and building his own recruiting firm. He lives comfortably in one of the Chicago suburbs having worked hard for most of his life. He graduated with a major in Communications.
In life it matters less what school you went to; it matters how you used your degree and your ability to work with people that allows you to be successful. That and a lot of hard work.
There is the saying "that was then, this is now" which applies here. Companies are more and more using a degree as a filter on who to interview. A degree in communications or art history does not lead to the same opportunities as one in engineering or the sciences. That is not to say that someone with a communications or art history degree will not be as or more successful than someone with an engineering or science degree, it is just that the opportunities are less.
In my view, and I have the advantage of viewing the terra firma for 81 years, we long ago reached the point where enrollment in a private college was for the very rich, the very poor, or the very foolish. I did my undergrad studies at a provate college, and I earned 2 semesters tuition working 10 weeks during the summer at minimum wage.
This was when tuition could be afforded through 10 weeks of work at minimum wage, presumably. I'm actually in awe at the idea that this was possible even back then, so lets do some quick math:
At 81, you likely attended college in the 50's. Tuition was actually inflated quite a bit during that period, but still less than 15k (on average) for four years. Ten weeks at $0.75 an hour (minimum wage in 1950), assuming 40 hours, is $300 large ones. Something doesn't add up?
Sitting here in the middle of nowhere, Arizona, that college campus looks absolutely beautiful with all the green grass and trees! Just stopping to "smell the roses!"
North Carolina is nowhere near Arizona...
Oops, sorry, misunderstood your comment. I thought you meant the *college* was "sitting here"
I graduated from Belmont Abbey College in 1963. It is a small liberal arts Catholic college and Benedictine monks made up much of the faculty at that time. (that is no longer the case.) The campus is lovely and is located about 5 miles from Charlotte in the town of Belmont. When I was a student the school was noted for its strong english, philosophy, and history departments and for its basketball team coached by Al McGuire, who later moved on to Marquette and coached them to a national championship.
The campus is truly beautiful and there is a monastery on the campus. Monks teach in the classrooms. In the main building, the classrooms are lined with bricks that were hand laid by monks over 100 years ago. The dorms are large, but very old. The good news is they have just built new ones along with a new cafeteria this year. My son loves it here.
Many who have regular college degrees or associate degrees believe outrageous lies touting vitamins and herbs for all manner of things, where there has never been any proof of their efficacy. They seem gullible enough to believe almost any thing about any other subject, if there has been a silly rumor on the internet. Internet disinformation has replaced "old wives' tales". The "degreed" don't seem to have a more discriminating or skeptical outlook than those without the degrees. They seem to believe any silly comment by an idiot on the internet, and equate it with comments from people who have rigorously studied a field, and have years of experience in it. Weren't we to learn some discernment and healthy skepticism at University?
OK, that's just bizarre.
Not sure about you, but I did. Any intelligent person would tell you that facts based on legitimate studies are required to substantiate any sort of claim. Now, does a college degree necessarily equate intelligence? Ah, THAT is the issue there.
Way back in 1961 when I graduated from HS I had my education paid for but went into the Army..Nearly 30 years and 2 wars I retired as a Command Sgt Major..I'm glad I went with the life I planned instead of what my parents planned for me..I have never been without a job and have a comfortable retirement..
Mervcenary!
I salute you for a living a life of celebration.
THANK YOU!!
Hats off to you. You confirm that values are more important than education.
But... you didn't have a real job. You had a governement job with government benefits and you are now enjoying a cushy government retirement... Aren't you part of the problem?
Raise your kids to become celebrities. Put them through talent schools, and get them to sing, act, or dance. There's way more money to be made by producing albums, making movies, or even doing some reality television show. If those avenues don't work, try being a youtube star! And if all that fails, well, maybe consider suicide.
Colleges raise tuition because it helps sap money from those that have it and increases reimbursement from subsidy programs like the GI bill. For those that don't have it, they give "financial aid" just to the point they can afford it. Today saving for college is the stupidest thing you can do since they'll happily take it from you.
Every time the government helps "most" students by providing aid in the form of grants, loans etc, there is more money chasing the same education. Inflation would naturally result. What do you get for this? Bigger campuses more luxururious dorms, and high salaries for the executive class.
The new low introductory rate... Its 'bundling' for the college student!
More money available to prospective students will increase the number of applicants (demand), but unlike traditional goods in the market that need not lead to inflation of prices. Colleges simply get more selective (something Wal-Mart cannot do) and improve quality. There can also be an increase in supply, but that will be chiefly at state schools. Education is not a typical market item.
Well said (for a deluded ignoramus defending). I love hearing the rationalizations of those defending their benefits! Sad that an academic admin does understand economics.
The real problem, imo, is that we've bought into the myth that college is somehow a golden ticket to a high paying job. It isn't, never has been, and never will be. College is being sold across our culture as some kind of economic gate-keeper, and it wasn't designed to be. And now we are reaping the results: skyrocketing tuition, students who are disinterested in actually learning (they just want the piece of paper), and under-employed grads with horrifying levels of student loan debt. Stop the madness, people. If you want a career, find out where you can actually get those skills (technical 2 year schools? community colleges and certificate programs? whatever it is) and then do that.
Coming from a person with "Dr." in their screen name...You don't get "Dr." from a 2 year college.
Not all jobs require a doctorate. There are also many jobs that a h.s. diploma will get your foot in the door, even if it only in the mailroom or maintenance depts; then while working you go to technical school or the community college for the certificate or 2 year degree to get a promotion, then use the promotion money to get the 4 year degree, if and only needed for the next promotion. While working, one can also take advantage of any tuition reimbursement or scholarship money offered by the employer, hense reducing the cost of that education. When the employer looks at the combined work experience and that community college work or technical school, they often will go ahead and give the promotion rather taking a risk on someone with a degree, but no work experience to prove their worth (a lot of employers know that not all learning is done in the classroom; yes you can memorize a book long enough to recite it on a test, but can the student actually apply it to a real job, the real job experience provides the proof you can do the job, work with coworkers, provide good customer service, follow company policies, etc).
To an extent you'd be right, but the main alternative – apprenticeships – have been largely done away with. And internships are only doled out to students. However it does hurt a lot when you are paying out big bucks for a certified education that's ultimately considered to be far inferior to actual experience by employers.
Students go to Universities so they can be the person who runs the company offering jobs. Apprenticeships and trade schools are for the people who will be working for the University graduate.
College is not supposed to prepare you for a career. It is supposed to make you an educated, curious, functional person. However it has become a very expensive trade school. I have two kids in college and I teach at a well known major university. When I was in college you had a mentor; an instructor who had office hours and you could visit with them for help or advice. I really appreciate my mentor and value all the time I had with him. Now instructors are part time, no office hours, no connection to the U other than class time and paycheck.
With incoming students who have been 'taught to the test' it's hard to find independent thinkers.
It's the difference between education and training. Each has there place. College is supposed to be about education.
And why are they part-time? Because those are, once again, the cheaper employees. Cheaper employees translates to fewer benefits to be paid out and thus more money for athletics and management. It's all business! Depressing.
Coming from another person with a "Dr." before their name.
Well said. Mentors/advisors did not exist at my public university. My advisor was the head of the department who obviously didn't have the time for a confused freshman. It didn't take long for me to figure out I was on my own. And this is why you have Psychology majors!
With prosperity, I may fully support 10 new college students every four years! Returning to college as an adult, in 2010 was the best and wort decision I have ever made. What puzzled me about people I now understand mental behavior, algebra, finances, budget, planning, investments, society, biology, diet, personal fitness, humanities, and world religions. The best knowledge was learning about narcissism, neurotransmitters, and facts from experts. Every potential parent should be educated about psychology, socially, and humanities. Cognitive learning requires effective knowledge, balance, discipline, and positive elements. Prenatal care is vital, but being mentally prepared is critical. I celebrate Belmont Abbey College! Every child should first be educated, while inside the womb of the mother with reading from the parents. Every family in America should embrace higher education from the beginning of life.
They should give students free credit for testing out of college courses. If they did that some high school drop outs would qualify for college degrees in soft subjects such as English, sociology and psychology.
And why should a high school drop-out qualify for a degree in what you refer to as soft subjects? Most state schools do offer a CLEP examination to HS graduates or GED recipients. For a person to receive any college credits, there should at least be some show of dedication. Life isn't free. Why should someone that's dropped out of school be given the idea just the opposite is true?
Who cares if someone thinks arggggh, I already know this BS so why am I sitting here? Shutup, do the classes like the rest of us and earn your grades.
I told my kids that they could drop out of HS when they were 16 and take the GED, if they went to community college for 2 years. 2 of my 3 kids did this. One is now 22 and will have their MBA in the spring and the other is 19 and has 2 AA degrees.
I joined the USAF out of high school, got out and went to a community college for an associates degree. The years spent getting the degree have never done anything for my career as near as I can tell. However, that time spent in the military led to a job that has been the basis of my making more money than most Masters level grad students make. College is over-rated in many aspects and is not necessary to become successful in ones profession. With the www and access to information, there is no need to just attend classes for the sake of learning. Most of this can be done online today and at greatly reduced prices to those doing the learning. I also think anyone should be able to sit for a test and "test-out" on the same tests that college students take; after paying a relatively small sum for sitting for the exam.
Aim High, Air Force!
The cost to educate a student has gone up only slightly. However, the contribution of state and federal funding to higher education has been going down for over 25 years. This is the main reason college costs have been increasing.
Don't blame it on banks, foreign students, wealthy families and spoiled kids.
There is a lot of value in going to college – but there is no promise that you will get rich or own company or be elected to public office. The promise I saw was that if I worked hard I could do work that I enjoyed and found rewarding. While I did not appreciate the humanities at the time I was in college I love to read history and biographies now. I have learned a greater appreciation for art and music that I was exposed to in college. I was also exposed to a greater variety of people and cultures than I ever experienced in a small town. I was challenged in many ways and discovered things about myself that made a strong impact on my life. I found all of these things enriching and these things made my life better.
I am not wealthy – but all of my life I have been able to do what I have enjoyed. For me, that made college worth the costs.
RNK you are spot on!
Money for ficticious wars. Money for expensive weapons. No money for education, healthcare, and housing. We need money for education, healthcare, housing, clothing, and food to all. A little individuality, yes. A little more of cooperativism towards people. Decent salaries and not part time jobs, so more money for executives. Do I mean a huge salary for the average? No, a decent salary to the average people. Less bonus to the higher managers.
You are the reason for hope! However well adjusted you may be... unfortunately many young people don't share your clarity. As for rising college cost, I believe it has reached a point that unless a teen has been graced with above average grades or athletic ability the dream of a college education is in the hands of the parents. However, with the economy sucking the wind out of retirements...poor Mom & Dad may end up living in a Jayco popup camper chewing on tree bark. So, I believe the article and most remarks are about affordability for all, not what exceptional people like u have accomplished.
Even in the humanities you make more money. Right out of college people with professional degrees (such as business or engineering) make more money since their skills are in shortage, but over time, the people with "people skills" (Humanities) move up the ranks because they can communicate better. You will find in many businesses the people who are in higher levels of management are every bit as likely to be "humanities" majors as well as "professional" The best 2 year degree I would think is nursing as I know some nurses who make over 60k with an associates degree. But, then again, who wants to deal with everything that they have to deal with? A very high burn-out career.
Nurses are not getting hired in California in most metro areas. New grads are taking desk jobs and CNA positions. So it's not everywhere.
There is no such thing as a two year nursing degree. Well maybe for an LPN. However the LPN's are not in demand ...nurses with 4 year degrees are the norm. Plus they have to continually update their training while practicing. At least in NYS this is true. LPN's usually end up working in nursing homes if they do not continue their education to become nurses.
A nurse with a 2 year degree is a Registered Nurse (RN). 4 years is Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN). Plenty of two year nurses running around. The main difference between nursing and other degrees is there are a high number of pre-reqs you have to complete to get accepted to a program, but those don't actually "count" toward your 2-4 years. However, RN's can still make great money for what they do, hard as the work can be at times.
You need to get your facts straight before posting that there is no such thing as an RN. I have relatives that have gone to nursing school and gotten their RN degrees. The local community college offers an RN program, along with several 4 year colleges in the area, here in Pennsylvania. I also attended a college in Georgia that offered an RN program and it still does (I've checked their website). My current employer (an insurance company) employs many RNs and there are plenty of hospitals in the area that have post job openings for RNs.
As tuition rises and financial aid increases, it's clear that colleges are running like our government: some pay more to subsidize others. It's not fair at all. This school is making the right decision – cut back tuition.
Belmont Abbey is a great school. I grew up (poor) in NC, and when I demonstrated good scores applying to colleges, they were kind to me, and dealt with me on a personal level. I seriously considered it, and sometimes wish I had gone there. I ended up at UNC-CH, with much kindness from that school, and loved it there. But Belmont Abbey has always had a place in my heart, and I wouldn't hesitate to send my own children there. Good on them for this act of basic decency! And what a beautiful campus, too!
Nice that they reduced the tuition to what was it? $18,500??? Sure...The average american family (middle class) can surely afford that...They're private...They have plenty of extra dough coming from the Alumni sector I'm sure. Impressive (especially in the state of NC) would of been a private college for under 10k. No one will care if your degree says it's from UNC or Belmont Abbey...Just attend a PUBLIC university, get the degree, and be done with it.
I'm shocked. It's about time.
Meanwhile in Florida they raise tuition 15% every year. UCF just cut summer camp programs for high school honor students and gave the UCF president a $26,000 year raise to just shy of $500,000 a year. Seems fair right?
my money is with the college loann providers, their business model is the best
Yes it is going on all around.. But then they cry about taxes..
Yeah, well the President of Ohio State makes more than a million a year and has an expense account of about $1.5 million. Count your blessings.
Only for new students? I would be P*SSED if I were in the $27,600 cohort and found out I had to pay that rate for all four years but that people after me got a reduced rate.
Actually, I am pretty sure I'd leave.
That tuition is the new tuition for all students.
Are you sure? "The college has announced that it is "resetting" its tuition, reducing it by 33% next fall for incoming freshmen and transfer students."
That implies the reduction is not for other students.
No school is worth $18,500-$30,000 a year unless it's for a professional degree. No one cares where you received your bachelors from unless it's a drastic difference between schools. If you are going to spend $30,000 a year you better make sure that college has a national reputation for academics. Private colleges are for kids who can't excel in sports and liberal art majors. Don't take the last sentence completely seriously, but most private colleges are for clowns.
Shhh! I work for a private university. Messing with my bread and butter here! (I agree completely)
Your a uneducated clown! My daughter is attending a private college in Pennsylvania. She is in her third year out of a six year required course. She will graduate next year with a Health Science Degree and after two more years at this private college will receive a Doctorate of Physical Therapy Degree. We are extremely proud of her. She graduated in the top ten of her class from a private Catholic high school and works two jobs over the summer to help cover her costs. By the way do you know that most students that go to a public college for four years have to go out of state to receive their doctorate. You need your Doctorate if you plan on being a Physical Therapist in today's market.
liberal controlled universities are a rip off? why does it cost 40 k to go to a decent school? and why do they pay professors 200k and more to teach one or two classes? this should be looked into by Obama but they are all Obama cronies so we continue to pay through the nose for sub standard services, bad food and cramped dorms
This is not a liberal college, this is a private religious school.
A professor making 200k a year? I've been a professor for over 10 years and have no colleagues who earn even close to that amount ( and I know many internationally respected ones...)
Check your facts.....
Somebody has a hand in the pot somewhere then..
I am a professor living on a remote island 1000 south by southwest of Hawaii. I made well over 200k before being shipwrecked. I built my hut next to the movie star, often i watch her play with her two beautiful coconuts.
Check your facts. Few faculty members receive pay of over $200k. In fact, the average pay in 2012 for full professors at the highest paying university (Harvard) was under $200k. At the best universities, the average pay of full professors (i.e., those who have been in the system for 12 or more years, typically, and those who have brought hundreds of thousands of dollars into the university through grants) may approach $200k, but you're just plain wrong to imply that faculty members are making a lot of money in the university system. Most successful faculty members make as much or more than they are paid by the university through consulting, assuming they are in a field where consulting is possible, and salaries outside of academia are considerably higher (e.g., I doubled my salary when I left academia).
I have been a professor for 10+ years and earn about $55,000 a year. I have colleagues who earn less than $50,000. I don't know who told you professors make $200,000, but they were lying. We make less than many of our students will make when they graduate with a Bachelor's Degree.
There are benefits to the job, but pay is NOT one of them.
Where do you work, Edwin? Starting salaries in my department are usually about $80K with market differentials. I think in the Humanities, starting salaries are still more than $50K here. Most people still retire at under $200K, however.
Public university salaries tend to be considerably lower. At my university, Assistant Professors start at 38,000/year. The majority of classes in my department are actual taught by contingent faculty members, who are paid a little less than $3,000 per course.
I am a college professor at Miami University. I have been teaching for 12 years. I have never made more than 58k a year for teaching and only had that job for a year. Asst professors at many schools (especially private schools) make less than 60k a year, unless there is a great demand and shortage of those teachers (like engineering and business). You may think we make a ton of money but we don't. I am making currently less than 45k and am living in my travel trailer.
IThere are so many stereotypes and misperceptions about academic work. Reality: I've taught for 28 years at small teacihing-oriented schools. I make $61,000 a year and have a PhD. During the academic year, I typically do a 50 hour work week–it's not at all unusual for us to have no days off for weeks at a time. I teach my own classes, do academic advising/mentoring to students of all ages/backgrounds who have complex lives, who need remediation for things they didn't learn in high school; I grade my own papers, avoid "bubble tests," etc. Some faculty at the "Resarch I" or elite private universities make high salaries because they're getting paid from corporate or government research grants, but most college faculty work at smaller enrollment/endowment schools like mine. State disinvestment in higher education has made higher education a mostly privatized system in most states now and that's why tuition has risen. It's NOT acceptable, but I don't see things changing.
yeah in the 4 years obama was in office the whole cost of higher learning rose to unacceptable levels. i guess your degree is in moronism.
Hey looser listen, Obama won reelection basically because most of America did not believe FoxNews's assesment of the Prez,which obviously you did, and the problems this country has is mostly NOT Obamas doing but a condition this country has had since Nixon ok'd the Ins. Cos.regulate their own pricing,look it up looser
Liberal Disease, your statement is incredibly ignorant. Let me guess: you have no education above high school likely. It's well known most college professors earn in the $38,000 – $75,000 range. You show further stupidity with the Obama statement, which implies Obama caused this issue. Educate yourself.
Hooray for Belmont Abby! I grew up right around there (Mt. Holly, NC). It is a truly beautiful campus with lots of culture/sports, etc. accessible.
I hope students will give this a try.
Good Luck!
I went to college for more than 5 years and I got an Architect Bachellor Degree in South America as an USA level, without paying a penny . I only paid for books and materials .
Nobody cares
And now you can't even spell "Bachelor Degree"
say hi to Butthead !
What's "as an USA level"? and it is not "an", it is "a".
...and what jobs have you obtained with that BA degree from South America? We notice you left that important bit of information out of your comment.
NYU-Polytechnic cost $143,000 for 4 years for my son. This college sounds like a bargain to me.
Shimer College in Chicago is well worth the $25K/year tuition, as almost anyone who went there will attest. That $100K investment made my life great, and me a millionaire. My son did a one year master's program (at Stanford). It cost $70,000 for that one year, but he earned more than that the year after he graduated–in a career he loves. Often, when you pay less, you get less. Not always–there are bargains out there, and among private colleges, Shimer College is certainly one of them.
Sure, obviously those with money can afford good colleges and send their sons to good colleges. Please don't make it sound like you made a wise decision. Your son went to a 70K school because YOU HELPED HIM.
Don't break this down to a YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR argument. It's more a case of the Haves....and Have Nots.
I was born poor .....and I'm likely going to die poor. That's the way it is for most people.
Wow Mike, haves vs. have nots? My father grew up on Welfare with 5 siblings in a single mother household, suffered renal failure after he was asked to join the Yankees minor league system, found work during the recession of the 70's (which is far worse than the one we are experiencing) and, still worked his ass off for decades to allow me and my siblings the ability to go to college and have a better life than he did. Maybe you should shut the f*** up, work hard, and do the same for your children? Or you can just whine like the rest of America and claim that "it's not fair" and the cards are stacked against me so I'm just going to give up and feel sorry for myself. That choice is yours...and not "the man's".
But the haves well die with even less.
How are they cutting costs by that much? Employing mostly adjunct faculty with no insurance and no benefits? Taking away retirement contributions from existing faculty?
They're cutting financial aid.
Try reading the article and the answer will become clear.
No wonder the US is in the trouble that it is in – people commenting on a VERY short article without reading it...
Hey Jim,
I didn't see anything from the previous poster indicate they are in the US. Nice assumption.
The article doesn't really state how they are affording to reduce tuition, only that they are and decreasing financial aid. You should read the article yourself. It is likely they are going to offset the costs by reducing full time faculty by attrition (not replacing people with tenure track positions, but with part timers or adjuncts). Quite possibly for the classes they think are "not hard to teach" like beginning level arts classes (such as English composition and public speaking). May times they make these cuts, the students are actually getting a worse education since the tenure or full time professors have higher degrees (and theoretically more developed axiologies) than adjuncts with 15 graduate hours in an area of focus. It is good to cut costs, but not if they are cut simply to cut them without paying attention to the quality of education.
That doesn't really help. Community Colleges have done that for years, but the tuition keeps climbing.
No wonder the rich get richer and the poor get poorer!
It is not madness to over charge tuition for the rest in order to finance well qualified students of scarce means. If this college now means to make everyone pay the reduced rate and give no financial aid and scholarships, they will find that the quality of their students will go down. There are many low income students that are extremely smart and qualified but cannot afford even the reduced tuition. Those students will go to a state school half as much or to another $30,000/year college that will award them a scholarship and pay near zero tuition.
Tuition is still too high...it's just school. It shouldn't be about how much money you have – it should be about your talent and what you will be able to contribute once you are educated.
Considering what I'm being told a school for my elementary-aged kid is going to cost to meet his needs, I'd say it isn't too bad at 18.5K.
over 18 a year for elementary school?! That sucks.
Unless you're getting a professional degree, no college is worth $25k/year in tuition.
I was going to write the same thing. Do not go to college unless you are seeking a professional degree.
I went to Alleghey College, Meadville, Pa, a complete waste of money and time. Liberal arts is complete rubbish
From a economic standpoint you are wrong. Schools that cost $10,000 to $15,000 a year more per year have better students, leading to better classes and an overall better education. That might mean nothing to you, but it does to employers: private school graduates can net $5,000 to $10,000 per year more over their career lifetimes. At an inflation rate of about 4%, that is an investment rate of return of about 280% for the extra cash... well worth the investment.
Even then, the tuition is not worth it. Many engineering schools use the same textbooks and curriculum. My husband and I both spent $3600 a year in tuition getting degrees in chemical engineering at a state school (actually THE cheapest state school). Ten years out and my husband is making $135,000 and I am lucky enough to stay home after seven years as an engineer. Four really hard years in school resulted in professional careers that do not require extra degrees to obtain financial and career stability. Work hard, choose wisely (school and degree).
I went to a tech school cost me like $1200 bucks took 18 months. When I got out I had a job waiting on me making $1200 a week. Thats around 50k a year give or take for the bad weeks. And as long as im on point i dont see or hear from my boss. I think I spent my money more wisely.
First and foremost contrats on educating yourself and increasing your lifetime earning potential. I do think you spent your money wisely, however I think it is a bit of a hollow argument to discourage a college education. Hard fact: an undergrad degree will net on average $1.5M more in lifetime earnings over a votech education. I'd say those checks written over to the university are money well spent.
Take medical and engineering jobs out of the equation and how much more do the rest of the BS degrees earn over a tech degree per lifetime? (pun intended regarding BS)
Quite a bit, John. The only bachelor's that don't pay off are in the humanities. Even then, sometimes they do.
Wow, this is funny. I went to college there and graduated 2 years ago. How about a refund back to my over $100,000 college bill because I was from out-of-state. Should have thought the price was outrageous then...why wait so long?!
It was your decision to go...if you did not think it was worth the money, or could not afford it, you should have made a different choice!!!!
uh....it's a private school....there is no out of state tuition at a private school. You paid the same tuition as everyone else there.
Your tuition helped cover the cost of those who were less fortunate and could not afford the same amount of money required to pay for the same education. It was in the story. You see, they charged more so those that would take the loans out or had the cash would pay their tuition and then the school could afford to assist those who could not. It is called re-distribution. Get used to it. Since you are now in the work force, you get to also fund those who cannot or will not find a job. Good luck.
You spent 100 grand to go out of state? I don't think you'll find anyone to feel bad for you. Go in state to a public school and save yourself a ton of money. Or you could move there and work a year while getting residency. There were tons of options available to you to avoid that much of a burden. Should've thought ahead.
While schools are classified as a non profit. I don't believe that give's an accurate representation of them anymore. Schools have expanded majors into areas where it may be overkill. Take MBA's. After you graduate and get hired at a firm you have to learn how they do things themselves. Schools tell the business world oh hey hire an MBA they will be squared away however Business's still need time to train and acclimate new hires still. In some instances an MBA doesn't give you certain skills and talents about how to really succeed in the business world. This is one example of where a degree in certain professions is not needed. Several states allow to apprentice to the bar. You would work in a law firm and study and challenge the bar becoming a lawyer at which point you could take the multi state bar exam. Also I have a good friend as a cop graduated top of his class yet when I see him he is very cookie cutter in his approach. You can see some apprehension and really the instincts are not there for street work and he knows it. However he will promote up and maybe be a pretty good Supervisor. Now MD's, RN's, PA's, etc and the hard sciences like engineers I think degrees are perfect for. However MBA's, BS in CJ, amongst other random degrees are not necessary for all.
Don't forget the humanities. While it is important to have people who are experts in these things, the payoff is not there and they should be maybe charged a little less for the college. I would have gone to school for history and been a history teacher if the history teacher salary – cost of college was equal to being able to eat. Instead, I went the hard sciences route and mostly hate my career. I am good at my job and I do make a lot of money and can afford to eat. I will say I don't have the passion for it though. Such is life, I guess.
My daughter's middle school history/world cultures teacher join the school this year after a different career. I think he was in engineering with an oil company and has traveled the world. Lots of people figure out a way to get back to their core interest. I wanted to be a writer. Got a finance MBA to survive a tight job market years ago. My current job in finance gives the opportunity to write and I'm happy with this twisty path I took.
I wonder how much of that tuition deflation is a result of decreased tax-funded STATE/FEDERAL financial aid (not just from the university's own endowments)? You know, those people who run colleges actually went to college themselves. I'm sure somebody ran the numbers and figured out they were past the optimum point on the curve for attracting wealthy out-of-state/country students who just paid the whole tuition in cash. Combine that with reductions in tax-funded aid and it doesn't even take a college graduate to figure it out...
Good point sort of like economies of scale.
Are the colleges a money magnet? I cannot believe the prices for text books. Who is getting fat on this? Follow the money trail.
I found that more often then not – my professor wrote the text book we were using! Talk about a scam!
When I was in college, which was 30 years ago, I had a professor who wrote the text book we were using. He told us to bring the book to class one day and gave each of us who bought the book 25 cents. He said that's what he got for royalties on each copy and felt it was the only ethical thing to do. I'm sure royalties are much higher now, but I doubt any professors are following his lead.
It takes many, many hours to plan, research, write, and revise a textbook, and most professors make very little profit from this at the end of the day. For most professors, it is their legacy for future generations.
Or an extra notch on the CV to climb the academic ladder to professor/emeritus etc
When I was in college I would buy from out of the country. The books would say "NOT FOR SALE IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA" on the back of the book. It would be the exact same book (same ISBN, printing, material, etc) and have a price printed in rupees or yuan. One of my books for class was $143.50. I ordered the same book from India and it had 800 rupees printed on the back. That is around $14. I think I paid 20 total with shipping. How much of a scam is that.
College Education Bubble bursting after the tech stock bubble followed by the real estate housing bubble and credit bubbles. Next is America Military and Dollar Bubbles ... that would burst and bury us completed. Just watch!
Interesting thought. I'd say tech has completely recovered the bubble. Everything is cyclical and will come back. I think we have a recession every 30 years or so.
I paid almost $30k a year for private school and I'm living large. Suck it losers!
I got my training and education in the military and it was all paid for and I'm livin' large. Who's the loser that forked out 30k a year? maybe you should go s..u.c.k it l0ser.
On behalf all American taxpayers, you're welcome.
Sweetness, you're a dbag.
Dave, on behalf of american tax payers; thank you for your service. Glad everything is going well.
Hahahahahahaha
Congratulations on overpaying for what is likely a worthless degree, by being lucky enough to be born into a family affluent to afford your largesse.
But people only get so much luck. Sorry you blew it on this.
If you're joking, that's hilarious! If not, kudos to you!
You relly must not be very bright.....you forked over 120K.............LMAO
And she wonders when you're going to move out of her basement
This name is hysterical.
You paid 30k a year on an education yet you're on cnn commenting at 4pm?
You got really far.
HAHA! Nice.
ZING.
lol same here. Went to an obnoxiously awesome school and have a good career going.
Education and Healthcare cost is so much lower when you look outside the US. I wonder why more people don't take advantage?
Because schools outside the US suck. Thats why everyone is trying to come to the US for an education.
Actually, everybody's coming to the US to study because it's an inside track to immigrating here. Ask any foreign student, and check how many of those are planning to return.
I understand this is a private college, but most of us could not afford 33% of $27,000, let alone $27,000! If prices were to stay the same (and we know they don't), that would be $74,000 just for tuition, assuming you went there for 4 years. Now, compound that with living expenses. I don't know what the expenses would be in North Carolina, but I'm just saying they would be significant to the average college student. My main point here is that a tuition cut on an unreasonable rate is still an unreasonable rate.
You may say, "Mike, there are student loans available." Do you want a loan for $74,000 out school, non-dischargable in bankruptcy? The only way out of it would be to pay it or die. Even if you die, your spouse still has to pay it! Now, some exceptions apply, see http://www.myfedloan.org/manage-account/loan-forgiveness-discharge-programs/public-service-loan-forgiveness.shtml?src=tertiaryAd and other related ways.
You may say, "Mike, I worked my way through college." Okay, so you made enough to pay for a four-year degree and cover living expenses? I ask you, why the heck are you in college? You're making more than a college grad would make, or you took a substantial amount of time longer than four years to graduate. (Okay, there are other reasons to attend college besides earning power, such as less work hours, or learning in general.)
To me, paying $74,000 for tuition is still unreasonable. This is just like clothing stores who sell "half-off" jeans at $60. If you think $60, for a pair of jeans is reasonable, you and I are on different wavelengths, my friend. But, if you think $60 is unreasonable, then perhaps we may have some common ground.
Let me correct some grammatical errors. The first sentence reads, ...could not afford 33% of $27,000,..." and should read "...could not afford 33% off of $27,000,..."
A sentence in my second paragraph says, "Do you want a loan for $74,000 out school..." and should say "Do you want a loan for $74,000 out of school..."
I sincerely apologize subjecting you fine readers to such junk.
Well, tell me this, does your grammatical corrections of another's paragraph make you feel better as a person? No matter how much schooling a person has received in life, if his/her character is condescending or rude, the education was worthless.
I do understand how you feel, but I was merely correcting my own grammatical errors. If I was correcting someone else's work, you're right. This would be very condescending.
Tonja:
Did you notice that Mike was correcting his own writing?
Actually, if you die, the loan dies with you. Your spouce does not inherit the debt.
Not necessarily true. It all depends.
If the debt is SOLEY in your name then it dies with you. However the creditor can collect from her estate so any money she had separate from you would go to debt collectors. If you had any joined debt so if you cosigned at all they could come for you. My wife and I own two Jeeps and a home and have a joint checking and savings account. However her school loans and credit cards are strictly hers. My 2 credit cards are strictly mine. So if I die the two credit card companies have nothing to go after since the rest of the estate is in both our names. Same if she dies her credit card companies and college loan can pound sand. I prefer doing things this way because at Christmas time we can keep our purchases actually secret lol. and in the event of an untimely death the little BS stuff can be erased.
I suggest drafting up a will and meeting with an estate planner or CHFC, CFP etc. Even if you have very little money I suggest it. At the very worst they can get you organized and maximize any potential money you do have. Also get life insurance even it it's just enough to pay for a funeral and eliminate the debt it is essential. 20 year term policy and a 15k whole life policy.
The cool thing is. You don't have to attend college there. You can and should go somewhere you can afford.
What this college has done is take the non-loan financial aid that most get and used it to lower tuition. If you want to go to another college, apply and see what non-loan financial aid they offer. A few students will be surprised to find a very generous non-loan financial aid package that will make their education affordable. So many people think that the published tuition is what it will cost them to go to a school. For some that is the cost, for others, it may be a lot less. But you need to apply and be admitted to find out the true cost. You will not need to confirm you acceptance though.
That's funny, because my school recently sent an email that they are raising our tuition 5%... And we're a community college...
$18,500/year is still a lot of money for a degree that probably won't get you a job....glad I went to Cal Tech and majored in Chem E.
As an Abbey grad I can speak to that. The world is not all scientists and engineers. Places like Cal Tech have their place just like the Liberal Arts schools have theirs. We all don't want to be Sheldon on Big Bang Theory after all. My degree from the Abbey first landed me a job at one of the largest papers in the country. When that was not the path I wanted it led me to a career in finance in NY. Many of my fellow alums are successes in a variety of fields. Some are executives with large media companies, presidents of banks, doctors, actors, authors, business owners and even a Congressman. The alumni base is typical of a well regarded Liberal Arts College – well diversified in their fields. Some of us use other parts of our brain and a school such as the Abbey is a great place to learn how. One the schools newest programs is Motor Sports Management – given the proximity to the NASCAR and auto racing some of the newest grads are finding success in yet a different field. This is a great school with a very loyal alumni base. It is unique in that the school was founded by the Benedictine monks the same way that they created and preserved Western Education through the centuries. The monastery is still the center of the campus and the influence on the culture is great. There are so many different ways to obtain what you want in life – to each their own.
Well said Tom
Tom, great response!!! Your statement “The alumni base is typical of a well regarded Liberal Arts College – well diversified in their fields" rings true. I too am an alumnus of Belmont Abbey College and have found the experience and education obtained there was a great first step into the "real work world." Good job Belmont Abbey, one can only hope other colleges will do the same!
blah blah blah
Tom and Joann: the liberal arts that you learned at Belmont is equivalent to the education that most Cal Tech grads get in their TAG/AP clases in junior high or high school. In addition, you display your ignorance by assuming that engineering students are not well-rounded. The truth is that one can't get into Cal Tech or a school of similar note without being well-rounded academically and highly-accomplished in all disciplines. No, not everyone wants to be like a character on the Big Bang Theory and the majority of us (including you) cannot; nor are most Cal Tech grads like that. Clearly, your education hasn't given you the critical thinking skills to discern TV from reality. On the other hand, Belmont is low hanging fruit: anyone with a room temperature IQ and an ok SAT/ACT can get in, and not many probably choose it if they have other options.
As for your school being a "well regarded" (Sic.) liberal arts college, I'll bet no one outside of a range of 20 miles from campus has ever heard of it before this article. It certainly is never named in any rankings, not even as a good regional school.
PS: "Sic." is used after a quote containing a gramatical or spelling error. Clearly spelling and grammar were not a part of your "well regarded" education.
Susan: Thanks for the rather interesting comment. Please review your own “gramatical” (Sic.) errors for spelling. I think you will find three noted errors in your comment. I guess spelling and grammar were not part of your education either!
Susan, Academic Rankings for Belmont Abbey include: In 2006 the Abbey was ranked as one of the best colleges in the Southeast by U.S. News & World Report and The Princeton Review. The Abbey was likewise ranked first in North Carolina – and second in the Southeast – for class size by the U.S. News & World Report. Please review your own information prior to stating false “facts.”
Also, Susan, you display your inability to rely on data for your conclusions. For example, how do you know that the liberal arts education at Belmont Abbey is "equivalent" to the "junior high/high school" AP courses Cal Tech students have taken? Perhaps in the early core courses, you would be correct. But I assure you, at any reputable program the upper-division courses are much more specialized and rigorous than the core courses. Please don't judge a liberal arts education based only on the entry-level courses you may have taken as an undergrad. They don't come close to approximating what goes on in the upper level courses, including both raised expectations for students and raised level of reading materials.
Excellent response, Tom!
Susan, I have met numerous people, including Captains of industry, who not only had heard of Belmont Abbey, but some who were fellow graduates. I was even hired for a high-level management position because of my degree from the Abbey. The hiring executive had hired another BAC graduate years earlier and was highly impressed with their subject matter expertise. I remained with the company for 15 years, and received numerous awards and acknowledgements for superior performance from this Fortune 100 company. At my retirement party, the Chairman and CEO gave a speech and noted my education from the Abbey, stating he would choose an Abbey graduate over an Ivy League graduate any day.
Like the other guy said, not everyone is a scientist, and science/tech jobs aren't the only important jobs out there. You are not better than anyone, and your job is not more important than anyone else's. The current state of the job market reflects the growth of technology, not its importance relative to other areas of employment/study.
You're reading comprehension skills aren't very good. I don't think Sam ever said he was better than anyone else, nor was it implied other than the fact that he wen't to a school that wouldn't give any of you a first look. A little threatened by a real degree, huh? While this college may have some successful alums, my guess is that the rate of unemployment and underemployment for its recent graduates is high. You don't find any Cal Tech grads waiting tables? Can this college say the same? Many colleges can claim a loyal following. That doesn't mean that they are preparing a student for the real world. A Cal Tech grad can walk out with $70k or more and get his or her graduate degree paid for by his or her employer, if he or she so desires; how many people from this high school after high school can say that? I'll answer for you: not many.
As for Motor Sports Management, my guess is that there's not many job in that major that will pay for the loan one would have to take out to get it. Also, I'll bet a mechanics degree from a good Vo-Tech school would serve one just as well, for less money. The degree might be fun, but it hardly has a place in a liberal arts college.
Sorry for the typo: "You're" should be "Your".
You're right. STEM jobs aren't always the "most important". However, I can't help but shake my head at the thousands of students leaving college every year with double digit debt for degrees that have next to no real, marketable, job skills.
While there is a very noticeable difference between student loan default and housing foreclosure, many of the issues that led to the housing bubble and its subsequent burst can be seen in the education market. We are allowing 17-24 year olds, often with little to no credit history (or, in some cases, risky credit history) to borrow tens of thousands of dollars without any regard to field of study. We end up a whole host of 4-year graduates with extremely narrow fields (Physical Education Management, anyone?) or generalized liberal arts that lack specialized, marketable, skills. They end up coming out working barely over minimum wage and having to pay back this substantial debt OR go back to school for a more specialized degree only to incur more debt.
Granted, we don't have a bunch of investment bankers punting around student loan backed securities like the mortgage industry did, but many of these student loans are EXCESSIVELY RISKY and are likely to never be repaid. We are rushing headlong to a student loan bubble burst because we have banged it into students heads that they can go to college to "be anything" while dismantling good, secondary public education, vocational training and apprenticeship programs.
It’s a pretty good racket universities have going. They keep raising tuition and Obama keeps demanding more money for student loans. The professors are making more money than ever and the students have more debt than ever. But you never hear about the greedy professors.
Yeah, we greedy university professors, out there making six-figure incomes and driving around in our Porches and BMWs, laughing at all the rest of you peons as we drink champagne toasts and snack on $15,000 cans of caviar.
You're an idiot if you honestly think that college professors are particularly greedy or particularly well-off. No one, literally no one, gets into academia because it pays well.
No they get into academia because they could not cut it in the real world.
Your nose is growing. Most get into it because they are lazy and can't hack it in the real world.
I love the "couldn't hack it in the real world" argument. I was a high school teacher for 5 years, and there's a reason so many people left or got fired from that job: they couldn't "hack it." Most of the people I hear disrespecting teachers do some form of sales. Talk about being overpaid!
I'm currently in law school, and there's a reason my professors get paid so much. No one else can do what they do. I think it's a bit excessive, but I want to learn from someone who knows- not from some cynical layman armchair expert.
Wait... you drive your porches??? Where do you sit and enjoy peaceful sunsets?
This is actually untrue. Sure, professors can end up making quite a bit especially if they obtain a dean or head position. Sadly though, most do not make much. Schools can not survive on tuition alone. Its been said time and time again. Most of the money needs to come from alumni or through research. The school makes 1.5 times more money off a graduate student through research then it does off an undergrad. At least the grad student gets the free ride though.
No, sir, you could not be more incorrect. We do not make more money than ever! In fact, given the level of education that I have, I should be making more, but I'm not. I have friends from high school (graduate in 1995) who make more than me and they only have a bachelor's degree (and I have a Ph.D. in biology!).
For someone with a PHD your grammar is bad.
Anya, the poster said that his or her degree was in Biology. My own PhD in English allows me to tell you that you are missing a comma in your own sentence, after the introductory clause.
I'll echo what the others have already said, while it is technically true that we are making more than ever, that is true of every profession in the world, it's called inflation. What is also true is that at my university we are finding it increasingly difficult to hire new faculty because in most disciplines a person with the degree required to teach at the college level can make more in the private sector. Do me a favor and sign up for a critical thinking course at you local college before you post on the internet again.
I'm a university professor. I could pretty easily get a job in the "real world" that pays 50% more than I'm making as a professor. But I prefer to receive less pay for a job I like more. I feel sorry for folks that think it's always about money. That's only one factor that goes into quality of life. Spending your time doing something you're passionate about is another.
If you want to look into where all those tuition increases are going, I'd look elsewhere. Growth of admininstrative positions, for instance.
Actually college professor jobs are paying more than I like seeing. However, the top heavy administrations of the colleges are probably the greatest burden. Many of them are necessary to meet government paper work requirements even though they are private. Another problem is a monopoly of a very few intermarried families controlling the cost of books. They say paper costs are high, but look at the cost of a ream of very good paper at a stationary store and ask where the rest of the $100 plus goes. Likewise printing costs have gone down, not up since about 1980.
Not "paying", it should be 'being paid'. Sorry about that.
Wow, this school must either rake in TONS of alumni donations, or have a HUGE endowment that will cover some of the tuition assistance. If the school I work at decreased tuition by 30% we'd have to recruit 200 more students for the next incoming class to make up the difference. That's just not realistic. I don't see how they won't have to increase enrollment – or how they won't have to cut staff to balance their budget.
My understanding is they are offsetting the costs by decreasing financial aid. The school is saying, why are we taking all this extra money from students just to give it back in financial aid? And its a valid question. The only real benefit from that is schools can pick and choose what students they want to accept. By heavily increasing the tuition to increase financial aid, schools can use the financial aid to attract or deter certain students by simply offering more or less student aid.
Most schools have generous needs-based financial aid. My guess is they are just changing the way they allocate these charges. While this may, to some extent, attract more students, the ones who will really benefit are the ones who would not qualify for financial aid and would have to pay the full amount. Either way the school collects the same amount of money.
All I know is that it is costing more for my daughter's freshman year at college than it did for all of my college education 30 years ago and I ended up with two Bachelor's degrees and an MBA. It's about time someone did something to stop the insanity of the cost of higher education in this country. We were fortunate this year in that my daughter had 90% of her education funded through academic scholarships. Hopefully those will continue throughout her academic career. Now I just have to figure out how to pay for her brother's college education starting next year.
Looks like someone just wanted to brag...so what is your point?
I thought it was a relavent comment (unlike yours).
Did 5yrs in the Marine Corps, got a Government job as a 12. Worked my way up to a 14 in 3 years. Making over 100K before I turned 27. No Bachelor's degree.
I hear what you are saying and all those college drop outs who make millions and billions but its not for every one. You have to be super smart, hard working to do it all on your own like your self.
Most people can not and need a guide, structure and thats what college gives you.
Gotta love that socialism.
And what is your 100k+ gubmint job?
First off, thank you for serving our country.
Second, if you ever get laid off from your govt career (and we all know how hard it is to get rid of govt civies), good luck working your way back up the ladder without a degree.
Yeah, well everyone knows that gov't jobs are the gravy train.
Ditto. Unless you are pointman on an under manned, under supported patrol at 10,000 ft elev, under fire, and no where to run.
As a college prof I can assure you that your experience in Marine Corp better prepared you for a job than the 4-year degree. Teamwork, personal responsibility and attention to the well being of the entire unit are seldom found on a college campus. These traits along with some practical experience would make a star employee.
Some day HR departments will realize that college professors do not train employees We instead attempt to open minds with education, which often leads to very poor employee traits. (questioning authority, etc)
90% of what a student learns in college is impractical in the real world and it was never intended to be used in a job. In most cases the ability to write a critique of a painting or book will not bring tons of cash. However, it does prepare the student to be able to analyze and criticize in a civil manner.
and thats the problem with government employees
Not to be mean, but did you ever consider that perhaps your job not worth 100K? Unless we're perpetually in war, being an expert in military combat is mostly useless. That's why there are so many homeless/jobless vets. So, if you're suggesting that joining the military is a good alternative to getting a degree (or any other sort of training for that matter), you're wrong. If everyone did that, we'd be a broke, unskilled, militarized society. See North Korea for further reference. And thanks for the service. It's the thought that counts.
where did it say that they were doing anything combat related? I was in the Corps for 4 years and was an IT Specialist and could have gotten a GS job doing the exact same thing. Just because you come from the Military doesent mean every job you do, government or otherwise, is militarized. We have people who served who now head fortune 500 companies, and I dont see them just putting out cammo paint and M-16s. Kind of a narrow sighted view of the on the job experience the military can give.
...and all you had to do is risk your life. Way to go! That's what I want my kids to do.
Instead they will go to college on mommy and daddy's dime, and probably end up hospitalized from alcohol poisoning after doing one too many keg stands at a frat house. *Slow clap*
Oh oh! Then they will say things like "No one ever gave me anything, I deserve the world!" and other blah blah things, Occupy various places (Which is so conducive in looking FOR work to just well...protest) and be moved back into your house by age 25.
Or they could do something OTHER than infantry in the military (You know, the OTHER JOBS that are there, like IT, communications, and the like) get amazing FREE training in it, on the JOB training in real life applications of it, learning to do more with less (Helps a budget later) and go to college for free WHILE enlisted (Tuition assistance went from 75% to 100% when I was in) or get a degree when you get out (Post 9/11 GI Bill for 36 months) and have the dedication, discipline and determination to actually complete their degree or if they got certifications while in, go straight into the workforce, as more and more places look at experience rather than just a pretty piece of paper with a stamp saying they spent 120K.
To each their own though. And before you say anything, yes I have kids, and would be proud if they served too.
and just what do you do all day long?
So, who or what was getting the money before?
Financial aid. Read.
no body, that's just it... they said "it's 27K, but with aid you only have to come up with 10K"... now they say "it's 18K, but you only have to come up with 10K" lower tuition, less "financial aid" they're just making it more attractive to losers of rich parents who'd have to pay the whole price with no financial aid/scholarships
Now those know-it-all hippy college kids can spend more money on their dope!
Darn dem edukated city folk goin to skool and smokin dope. I ain't no scientician but I dont need no fancy skool to noe my grann daddy was no monkey!
Noew... that's funny!!!
Actually, we looked into it, and it turns out that your granddaddy WAS a monkey.
No, this isn't some evolutionary thing - you're just 1/4 monkey.
Be careful Bob 'em monkeys may not take kindly to being disparaged...
Troll!! maybe a college degree isn't useful in the trailer park where you live but its very much required to get a job in the real world... for your sake, I hope ditch diggers and burger flippers won't soon be replaced by automation...
I guess I’m just another one of those ‘lucky’ ones that has managed rather well with just a HS diploma.
I work as a Stock Broker. I make close to 100k a year at 25 years old. I only went as far as High School. For most people a college degree is a waste of time and money.
"Stock Broker" ^^^. You don't do anything. Thank your lucky stars someone pays you that much to place bets with their money. If you got a good job with a HS education, you're mostly lucky. There are plenty of smart/talented people out there who simply aren't qualified enough without a BA. Disparage the degree all you want, but I'd hire a college graduate before I hired you.
that's great! Because the balance sheet stops making sense after a while, it's no longer a balance sheet, it starts to look like a slide. Nothing is wrong with financial aid, but if you didn't make the prices so darn high, more people could actually afford to go without having to give their offspring up to the system!
As a college student taking economics, I recently realized something. They way tuition is set up, People pursuing certain degrees, such as Liberal arts and Humanities are subsidizing those taking other high cost degrees such as science. Why not tier the costs of education based on the amount of money invested into the major programs? Generally degrees that require more inputs (Science, High level business), yield higher salaries than lets say an english or political science degree (my second major). So by more fairly using a tier system, debt burdens would be more closely allocated towards earnings.
Unbelievable. I cannot believe someone would actually rationalize that Liberal Arts degrees are subsidizing, engineers, doctors, lawyers, you know, people who actually who.
You ran out of people or things to blame, Bush, Republicans, the Tea Party all defeated, the rich are getting taxed. Now you blame your fellow students that actually want to get a job.
You are a plague on society. You openly admitted you are going to college for a hobby and you want someone else to pay for your 4 year vacation while others study to actually get a job.
What a tool.
Riley O is right. Liberal arts students have been subsidizing doctors and lawyers forever. It's just reality.
Troll, Against my better judgement, Ill take a moment out of writing my research paper to publicly demonstrate to the world how unintelligent you are. For a student getting a college degree (As with any product), There a variable and Fixed costs. Fixed costs would be things like administrative offices, (Student Life, Athletics, Admissions, Alumni relations etc.). These are the same for every major and shared. Then there are variable costs per major. Like the faculty teaching content, The business and science labs, Academic buildings. Under the current system, all of this cost is summed, and divided across the entire student body. What i suggest is the variable costs should be summed by major (or department even) and divided among the students in the major or department. In this way everybody is paying for what they are consuming. It just so happens that majors that cost more to provide also have higher salaries, so in terms of debt repayment it would happen to be more equitable, not a policy goal but a policy outcome. I did not say I'm going to college for a hobby. Im pursuing a double major (You know, double means two) in Economics and Political Science. I also work a job in landscaping, you know manual labor, For money to live off of, pay some of my debt now, AND fund my Roth IRA so i may retire. So i want and have a job. Im also involved in such programs as Model UN and the CRNC to network and create opportunities for myself. This is my only response to you. Im going to go back to my studies, and have conversations with adults about solving the problems in this country. Now you should probably log off and go upstairs and ask Mom when dinner is ready. Sincerely, Somebody with a Brain and a Plan.
Dear M.,
Riley just owned you from top to bottom. You get an A on your assignment Riley O. Well done.
Major flaw in your argument. Even though students in the hard sciences will generally have a much higher salary once graduated and working...they do not have access to said funds until they've started working. Keeping those tuition rates high, or even raising them, will simply keep capable students from training for and filling highly needed jobs. I struggle constantly to afford the ability to attend school, working 50+ hours a week to afford rent, books, and tuition, so that someday I can be an engineer.
I think tuition needs to be pulled back across the board, and access to funds needs to be easier for students. Most importantly, parents need to realize that their kids will need a degree and not expensive toys. Live modestly and plan for your futures, quit being impulsive and blowing your income on junk.
WE discussed that at my university, but some members of the council pointed out that some students might major in a humanity subject, while completing a science major on electives, and then switch majors in their senior year to save money. It is also common to complete premed requirements while majoring in a non science in order to look more unusual and interesting to med schools. This issue is more complicated than it looks on the surface. Science classes do tend to charge lab and equipment fees, and science professors bring in big grants, with about 70% overhead, too, so tuition isn't the only issue. But it is an interesting idea.
Yeah, i acknowledge there are alot of flaws and checks that would need to be fixed. Im just looking at the reality of the situation that the way we do it now is about to blow up in our faces. Im open to any kind of discussion on the issue.
Because later in life when you become a minimum wage social worker or other such "soft jobs" you'll need the people with the "hard jobs" to subsidize your existence.
I understand your view on specific tuition fees for specific programs. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to make the assumption that your view is based on a need for equality. However, why charge someone more for the program just because they are going to make more money in the long run? You are punishing those who choose to pursue a career that earns more money. Why discourage that?
Perhaps if we should suggest a tuition system based on the cost of the program. The university I went to participated in a limited view of this, which charged extra "Administration Fees" for attending the specific school or program. So, if a liberal arts degree costs more than a science degree, let the price be adjusted accordingly. One issue could be the cost to determine what each program costs to run. In this situation, the cost may or may not outweigh the benefit to each student.
Perhaps an even more important factor is the demand for a paticular program. As an economics student, they probably teach you the fundamentals of supply and demand. Maybe each program should cost depending on the supply of the programs resources and the corresponding demand for those resources. So, if a liberal arts degree is in higher demand and/or lower supply than a science degree, perhaps a liberal arts degree should cost more. Again, see above paragraph for potential limitations on such a view.
Or, perhaps we should just leave it the way it is. I am certainly no expert on the subject, but I did find your view intriguing. I do disagree that a student should be charged more because he or she could make more money in the future. I believe (especially for the United States) a person should be able to make as much or as little as he or she wants to, and no one should arbitrarily assign restrictions on that ability. In my opinion, this would be akin to a tax on wealth, not
Thats what im mainly getting at, tuitions that reflect the costs of the program. it just so happens that it would also reflect salaries when somebody graduates. The cost of any degree has fixed and variable costs. fixed costs for running the schools and facilities. variable costs for specific things to majors, like labs and faculty. every student at the college should share in the fixed costs, but then people in majors or at least schools (liberal arts, Science, and Business). should share the variable cost of their programs.
I have an undergraduate degree in Nursing. We did have to pay a nursing differential that raised the cost of tuition since we were in the sciences. Just FYI.
Have you also realized that the alums that write big donation checks are usually doctors, lawyers, accountants, CEOs, CFO, etc. Never really hear much about the professional philosophers, social workers and art curators donating thousands, millions to their alma maters.
I do realize this. And there is a risk that you could jeopardize some donations. But do you also realize they typical don't send that money to the General Scholarship fund. its usually towards naming buildings or labs, or earmarked for specific projects. I have no empirical evidence, but it would take a guess it wouldn't be terribly adverse. maybe it would be, im just throwing out an idea to bounce around. I have no idea if it would work in practice. But it's clear what we have now is not working in practice.
Yes, it does cost more to educate an engineer and universities are charging the engineering students more than the liberal arts students. Every university my son looked at charged a premium for engineering. Some other majors such as physics and pre-med have an extra charge as well. It costs the university more to have a physics lab, etc. than a plain old classroom.
That's interesting to hear, Ive never heard of it actually in practice. The private school in New York that I am at charges the same tuition across the board. There's basic cash flow and accounting purposes for that. But it's interesting to know there is a place with at least some consideration of a different kind of system
Both my children managed to get degrees with student loans of less than 5K upon graduation, now paid off (they are in their mid 20s).
You just have to be smart about it, and it might take you a year or two longer and you may have to work while you do it. The biggest problem is that no one is teaching their kids how to be smart about it, and too many high school and college counselors either don't have a clue or don't care.
Um, no, it's not "just about being smart". There is no reasonable way to pay $150k or more in tuition while being a full-time student and walk away with just $5k in debt. Kudos to you and your kids for finding a path, but it's not a complete solution.
Part of being "smart" is choosing the right school. While it is fine to spend $150,000 for an undergraduate degree if one has unlimited resources or the requisite grants and scholarships, there is no need to spend that much to get a Bachelor's degree. State universities charge about half that, and if a student lives at home and completes the first two years at a community college, he or she can easily shave off another $25,000. Most students who are able to live rent-free with their parents for the two years at a CC can make enough with part time and summer jobs to pay the tuition. After transferring to the state university, students who live frugally and continue to work 10 hours or so during the school year and full-time in the summers can probably get by with only about $30,000 in loans. If they are aggressive about maintaining a strong GPA and seeking out merit-based scholarships, then reducing the debt to $5000 would definitely be possible for "smart" students.
Everybody wants what they want - no matter what it costs. That is fundamentally the problem with our country, community, and individually. If you can't afford $150K in education costs - don't buy it. Someone will pay your tab for you one day. Everybody needs to get real. Find scholarships if you must go to Ivy League schools.
Exactly, Jo Ann, and that's how my kids did it. I tried hard to teach them the value of life without debt and it's really paid off for them.
Miriam, I agree, this is very true. The picture I had painted for myself was go to college or become a dreaded statistic. That I'd never going to graduate, dropout, pregnant, etc... well, that's a mindset, not reality. Going to college won't necessarily make you filthy rich, (remember you have teachers, doctors and local small business persons who went to college and they live in your community too). You will probably still have neighbors and friends that didn't go. Next, some colleges market themselves like a 'get rich quick scheme', make more money, yadda yadda! That's not a reason to go wasting $100k when you could do the same for less than $20k. Why? Because there comes a time when the cost outweighs the benefit. Even Puff Daddy's kid has a scholarship. And he's mega-rich. So, what makes people think they should pay a lot for college? Advertising, that's all. It's just good college PR! If more kids sought out scholarships and other avenues to pay for school, then they could decrease their spending and increase their earnings.
The next fiscal nightmare is the default on student loans. Colleges keep raising fees and the Government keeps handing out guaranteed loans regardless of major or qualifications. Problem, they are not getting paid back. Does this sound familiar.
The current recession is due to another bad Government Policy. Guaranteeing home loans ( 1992 Fair Housing Act). This allowed unqualified individuals to buy homes. Well, many of these individuals defaulted. Now were in a mess.
And no it was not just the GOP that did this. The housing bust was led by Democrat Barney Frank.
Putting too much faith in big goverment is a mistake.
You can't default on student loans they are a chronic ailment. Even bankruptcy won't touch them. They will hound you, call you, take your wages, your tax returns, destroy your credit and completely ruin you financially until every cent is collected.
The only solution for Fed loans is the new(ish) policy Obama put in place, you pay for twice as long and based on your income and dependents, it lowered my rates 80%. But make no mistakes, you can't default or bankrupt out of them, they are a special brand of incurable debt that is protected from all attempts to run away.
so, that's what the obama plan is all about, lower and longer interest terms. Interesting, so basically, a long drawn out slave-death as opposed to a short quick one!
^^^ Got a better idea, Buddy? Didn't think so. Or did you just want to complain about Obama because you saw his name?
"Putting too much faith in big goverment is a mistake."
Well, putting it in large corporations is not he answer. There's the death of our economy.
Eric, if that act was the cause of the financial collapse then why did housing prices not start to go out of control until 1999. The real cause (not saying the act was a contributing factor) was the repeal of glass steagall
The banks are to blame for the housing mess. They mismanaged the loans. They were greedy and now look at this mess. And yes, it was the Republicans who gave the banks carte blanche power over the housing loans.
Actually, we are all to blame for the housing crisis. Banks want to make more money. We want to pay less and not have someone check to see if we really have a job or a down payment. Many people who get an Adjustable Rate Mortgage (ARM) will not be able to refinance it when time to comes to pony up the cash. The government approved it by requiring banks "not to discriminate" against minorities, which ended up being interpreted as not being able to discriminate against those with lower credit scores or no down payment. Why did the government back this plan? Votes, of course! And, as you can see, it didn't backfire until WAY later than time period it started.
"Colleges keep raising fees and the Government keeps handing out guaranteed loans regardless of major or qualifications. Problem, they are not getting paid back."
First of all, any government student loan that goes into default gets paid by garnishing wages.
Second, they are getting paid back. I graduated 5 years ago and 98% of the people I know who have loans are paying them back, Every single month. I only know one person who flat out refuses to pay her loans back and unless she gets paid under the table her wages and tax refund (if she qualifies for one) goes straight to the government without her choice in the matter. As someone who has at times struggled to make my payments but has never missed one because I value my education and am glad the government gave me the money to pursue it, I am insulted that you think people aren't repaying their loans. It's like saying all people on welfare are working the system just so they can be lazy slob welfare queens. That's a sterotype not a norm. There may be people who default on their student loans but more often than not we are all doing what needs to be done to get them paid off. I have 4 years and 11 months of student loan prison left and I can't wait to make my last payment. Tears of joy will be shed that day but I will never forget that without government loans I wouldn't have gone to college. Education is not an individual investment, it is a societal one. Educating our children benefits everyone.
(1) College is expensive ts the government makes more money available to students to help pay for it. Universities raise their costs because students can now afford to pay more. (2) Return to 1....
This is exactly it. The a lesson about capitalism in there somewhere.
It's not capitalism. It's the unintended consequences of short sighted policies. In what two areas of the economy are prices rising dramatically faster than the overall economy? Health Care & University Tuition. What do they share in common? The government is primary funder. As they get more expensive, the government throws more money at the problem.
Colleges don't give a rats A$$ about the education now a days as they're all just another corporation that's out to make money hands over fists. The educational part is just the guise for doing so!
And the sweeping generalization of the day award goes to...
It goes to you, along with the 'Burying my head in the sand' award.
For the administrators / sports programs, yes. For the actual educators, no. I'm an instructor at Berkeley and I can guarantee you that the actual educators are very fed up with this "marketplace transaction" model that university presidents, regents, and chancellors are forcing down everyone's throats...you know, the "Education is a product that we sell to students to make them more appealing on the job market." I can also tell you that we're even more fed up with the people who aren't affiliated with academia who buy into that model. Anyone who says that college should be all about making money – either for the administrators or, down the road, the student – is part of the problem. Take a good look in the mirror and decide whether or not you're guilty. Education is not a product. Anyone who thinks that it is should be ashamed of himself.
So I should simply pursue education for educations sake? I hate to break it to you, but for a $150 to $200K investment I had better end up with some marketable skills!
^^^ No, John. Don't go to school. It's not for you. Work your way up from the bottom of an industry and get really good at your job. Degrees are for intellectuals who pursue intellectual jobs. Sometimes the jobs don't pay that much, which why someone like you wouldn't have an interest in them. Frankly, if so many people didn't attend college for the promise of a higher paying job, tuition might be lower.
You are wrong.
@Johnna–you are really very far off from the truth with your "colleges don't give a..." statement. As a member of a university's IT department, I can safely tell two things about most universities, and back it up with facts:
1. They do care, care very much about the education of students, ranging from traditional (in the dorms, fresh out of high school, etc.) to the adult education finishing their degree or getting a masters.
2. They are NOT just another corporation. I worked in corporations, some as big as 300,000+ world wide. Universities could stand to learn a little about corporate efficiencies, but most people I know at all levels of university employment are making about half of what they could be making if they were in a corporation.
And here's another fact. According to this little known fact finding agency, the unemployment rate for college grads, as of October 2012 is 3.9% http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm
College is certainly not for everyone (neither of my parents had a degree, and it didn't hurt them. My oldest brother too), but for those who want a degree, there are benefits to having one. And it's affordable if you are diligent and seek out the scholarships and grants.
It's medicaid (now obamacaid) that you mean.
So it sounds like they were using the higher tuition from paying students to provide aid for poorer students. Kind of like how the hospitals pay for Medicare patients. So the college said, we're sick of this. Doctors and hospitals will follow suit one day too, unless the Nanny state decides to make them "public servants".
So it seems like they were charging more than they needed and were returning much of it back in financial aid to the students. I assume though that they spread this money according to financial need – meaning that the distribution back was not the same for every student. It seems like the effect of their new policy will then be to have fewer students with low financial means and more students with adequate financial means. Good for students coming from an upper middle class background – not so good for those coming from a poorer background.
It's my guess that there weren't a terribly large percentage of students receiving $10,000 of financial aid to attend this school (unless you want to count student loans as financial "aid"). And they're not cutting financial aid, but adjusting it proportionally to the tuition cut, so nobody is really losing out on anything except a larger tuition bill.
This year, 83.6 percent of students at Belmont Abbey got need-based scholarship or grant awards averaging $10,274.
it's a net cost game. even with a 33% tuition decrease the after discount net cost for families may stay stable. Think about 2 schools, one cost $50k but discounts the average students $20k or a school costs $30k and no one gets any aid, it's the same cost to the family.
Absolutely correct Keith. I have two in college right now. Belmont Abbey is just dropping the scholarships. Cost will net out to where it would be normally. Mine were offered many scholarships that brought the tuitions of private schools close to the publics. Don't be fooled. Tuition these days is a major rip off and the quality for what you are paying is comical. I'm working on my masters at $3200 a class, I should know.
But the key word here is "average", Keith. To take your example where the 50k school returns an avrage of 20k: Not everyone got 20k back. Some (with presumably high financial need) got 30k back. Others, because they couldn't demonstrate need, might have gotten 10k back. If the school switches to where everyone pays 30k, the student who could not show financial need gets an effective 10k decrease in tuition. The student with financial need gets a bill that is 10k higher. This will make it harder for the students with financial need to attend.
I'm not arguing whether this is good or bad – just that it is an inevitable result.
Mitch Daniels & Michael McRobbie – I hope you are both reading this!! College debt is now higher than credit card debt. i work i HR and I can tell you that it's now WHERE a student goes to college but how they performed (and balanced extra-curricular activities, like greek life or work).
I hope other colleges look at the European community and their 3 year university model in the future.
In Oregon, the crooks have gone to a Fall, Winter, Spring semester (3) system that requires 180 credits to graduate (vice the standard 120) and of course the cost per credit is as always. Basically it's 33% more tuition costs and your classes are only 10-weeks long. These guys are doing anything but eyeing the Euro model. Truly sad.
Not everybody HAS to go "away to college" for an education,local and community colleges are just fine.With big business touting how smart the rest of the world is compared to us,why waste time trying to get a job that will go to foreigners anyways ? If big business is so pro American,why do they complain about a made up fact that they cant find enough smart Americans ? I'll tell you why,because the foreigner will work for pennies on the dollar,this leads to our government collecting A LOT LESS PAYROLL TAXES which is a major blow for our budget.
I take offense to your comment. I'm not American but when i decided that i wanted an american education i paid for it. And it was triple what i'm sure you paid for your education. When i graduated college i certainly did not expect to be paid pennies and I don't get paid pennies today because i did go to college so that wouldn't happen. When i sat in all those job interviews i had my skills and my college education to show i was the best candidate for the job. Trust me, I got turned down just as much as joe down the street. And a Notre Dame education will not lead you to the driver seat of a truck, it's an education many would die to have.
Not sure the ND Degree is academically superior but from a networking stand point, they are hard to beat; Where Notre Dame
Souveniers as you travel; it is unbelievable how many people will come up and start talking to you about Notre Dame; Their public relations is fantastic
Go Irish!!! -'02 Grad
BTW – yes an ND degree is very superior. Our school constantly ranks near the top for most employed students out of school. It is a difficult school to get into with very high standards.
Say what you want, this is a great little school with no desire to become a 45,000 student diploma mill. My youngest son graduated from BAC with a 3.999, got a full ride to Notre Dame for his Masters, GPA 3.75, and is now finishing his PhD. We couldn't be happier or more proud.
Good for you,he'll be the smartest truck driver out there.
I wasn't dissin' the school,just takin a jab at the economy
Understood
Great school and very well respected in the Charlotte area.
Your living my dream for my two kids. We are from Nebraska. Hoping the kids will go away to see how good they had it! This looks like a lovely school!
Who's going to blow 27K on a college so private no one's ever heard of it. Private? Pfft. More like anonymous.
I went to this school. During my time there they made leaps and bounds in the quality of student life. They are very well respected in the Charlotte area and have a quality educational program in an intimate (read small) classroom setting. I look back very fondly on my years there. The school is run by Benedictine monks who teach by example. Hopefully the Rugby program still exists.
I've heard of Osama bin Laden. He must be a great guy, right? I mean, he's FAMOUS! Perhaps if you had attended Belmont Abbey College you would have taken a logic course and wouldn't make such obviously flawed statements.
Those small private schools are super expensive with the tuition but if they want your particular skills they are quick to give a lot of credits on that tuition.
I "blew" 27k a year on this school and it was the best choice I made. It was well worth the tuition for the quality education I got, wonderful relationships with teachers, and knowing the faces of everyone on campus. Felt like a home away from home. I am glad they are lowering the price which will hopefully allow others to be just as blessed to attend the school. It is also becoming very well known – I now live in Jacksonville where I have met multiple families whose children currently attend or have attended in the past. I find it arrogant for you to pass judgement on those who go to small schools – even if they are not poplar – and how they decide to spend their own money.
Private college education in the U.S. is a wholesale RIP-OFF of the worst kind. I have one last kid to launch, and I'm going to enroll her in the University of Puerto Rico, perhaps the Mayaguez campus (my old Alma Mater) if her grades hold up. Probably one of the last good, cheap public STEM schools on U.S.-controlled soil. If the grads there are good enough for NASA and State Department headhunters, the school is good enough for her (plus I'll get to retire on the island, I'm feeling warm and fuzzy already).
Tuition at all USA colleges and universities are driven higher and higher, by foreign students who are willing to pay anything for a USA education. Many of these foreign students don't pay a single penny of that tuition themselves, but rather is is paid on their behalf by wealthy benefactors in their own countries, or even their own governments.
Why shouldn't USA colleges and universities raise and raise again their tuitions, since there is an ampule number of foreign students with cash, to still fill every single classroom seat.
That statement is absurd. I paid for my college myself. I have no sponsors and everyone that i know had no sponsors. That money i paid goes dierectly to your scholarships and fiancial Aid. I'm pretty sure a lot of that grant money you got came from the pockets of many foreign students. Why is it when the economy tanks suddenly everyone blames other countries? The USA is just as repsosible for the problem. And i love this country as my own. I pay taxes like eveyrone else and i work hard for my money.
New Mexico Tech is also very reasonable and well respected.