Guns, guards and posses: Schools try new security strategies
By Jamie Gumbrecht, CNN
(CNN) - It's not the first time this has happened: Students return to school after a few weeks off, and a few things have changed. Maybe the gym floor got a shine, the new physics teacher arrived - or there's an adult with a gun.
As students across the country returned to school this week, some schools implemented new security policies or brought in new personnel. Some are temporary or pilot programs. Others are refreshes of existing plans and training.
In Utah and Texas, some educators trained in shooting or self-defense. Arizona's Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio put a "posse" of armed volunteers around school perimeters. The National Rifle Association said all schools should immediately have armed officers, later adding that schools should decide for themselves how to protect children.
It's all in reaction to the December 14 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, where 20 children and six staffers were killed.
“This is Columbine déjà vu,” said Kenneth Trump, a school security consultant who works with school districts across the country. For weeks he's been hearing from schools that want to review emergency plans, train staff or invest in technology they hope will increase security.
"I’m happy to see these conversations happening now," Trump said. "I’m frustrated you couldn’t pay someone to have those conversations the day before Sandy Hook."
A lot has changed for Sandy Hook students. They returned to school last week in a different building in a different town. The school was outfitted with familiar rugs and furniture - even the school's pet turtle made the move.
In his State of the State address on Wednesday, Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy emotionally rejected the idea of guns in schools, whether teachers carrying weapons or guards outside every classroom.
But Sandy Hook students did return to a school with more cameras, more locks and an obvious police presence nearby.
"I think, right now, it has to be the safest school in America," Monroe Police Lt. Keith White said on the students' first day back.
"Right now" is the timeline security pros struggle with. Trump expects schools to keep calling until budget decisions and new crises draw their attention.
"There’s a buzz at the local level," Trump said. "The question is always going to be sustainability, a dollar cost and time cost. Are you willing to do those things?"
Next week, Schools of Thought will consider five perspectives on how to make schools safer, but for now, here are some security shifts we've heard of across the country.
Starting this fall, all incoming freshman at San Diego State University will undergo "active shooter" training, where students learn how to respond, fight back or set up barricades between themselves and a shooter. Other universities have used the training, too.
In Marlboro Township, New Jersey, the mayor shifted police officers to each school for at least 90 days, until they've done a full security assessment. The officers will be paid from the Board of Education's budget.
In San Antonio, the owner of a self-defense and fitness studio began to offer free self-defense classes to anybody who works for a school, CNN affiliate KENS reported.
It's not yet in place, but Arizona's attorney general proposed a plan to arm principals or another designated person. Budgets are too tight for armed school resources officers on most campuses, Attorney General Tom Horne said.
The Utah Shooting Sports Council is stepping up courses that offer free firearms training to teachers.
What changes have you noticed in your school's security policies, training or staffing? Do you like the changes or not? Share your perspective in the comments.
Related: Student News
CNN Student News is ten minutes of commercial-free, cost free news for middle and high school classrooms. It is available on line on our website, as a free downloadable podcast on iTunes and on HLN at 4:00 a.m. ET weekdays during the school year. Go to www.CNNStudentNews.com@CNNSchools on Twitter
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Joe Arpaio is an anachronism right out of the antebellum 1800's. It won't be long before one or more of his posse beats up or shoots an innocent passerby because he "didn't look from 'round here." or "he was talkin' an' walkin' funny."
let's stop this ignorance and put the blame where it really belongs on the shooter! l
It seems like the more guns we have in schools, the more shootings there will be. Plus, do we really want a gunfight to be the solution to this problem? Wouldn't it be better to stop it before it happens?
If there was a good way to stop it before it happened then obviously we would do that. Unfortunately there is no way to know before hand so we either need to respond during the shooting or after, and as the saying goes "when seconds count police are just minutes away".
Gee, how long before we read the headlines "ARMED GUARD MASSACRES 16 CHILDREN"???????
As opposed to the headlines already in the paper? FYI if a teacher wants to kill your kids...they can already. How hard would it be for a teacher to bring a weapon to school? A bomb? Poison the food? Bus driver drive your kids off a cliff? Since I already trust my teachers I want to give them the tools to protect themselves and my children..which I have 6. Vicki Soto had NO way to defend her self..NONE. Her only weapon to protect the kids was her body which she sacrificed to save the kids. Next time I want the Vicki Soto's to live because we have given her PROPER tools to defend against armed intruders. How many air lines have been hijacked after the pilots were armed? Z E R O.
It is security officers called air marshal's that are armed not the pilots. Plus, some terrorist still managed to nearly detonate planes. It wasn't guns that saved the planes, it was luck.
We won't, who do you blame for the shootings? The fact that they had a gun, or the shooter them self? Its not like a bunch of mercenaries will be employed by the schools, the guards will have background checks, also there will be more than one guard, so that won't happen.
0bama's kids go to a school where it is STANDARD PRACTICE to have 11 ARMED security personnel. Standard practice means that EVEN IF 0bama's kids did not go to school there, they STILL HAVE 11 ARMED security personnel.
So I guess some kids are just worth more than others. If you don't want armed protection for your children, I guess you don't value them that much.
Here in San Diego Unified School district I searched the web to determine if our school districts officers were ARMED. I found the following story ( http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/education/article_5e86d868-ccf9-11df-a7fe-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story ) with a picture of Officer Joseph Knuteson. Take a close look at the picture and in particular the Officer's righ hip. Do you see what I see? That is a gun, of the semi-automatic type. So I am assuming that our school districts kids are protected by ARMED POLICE. I kinda like that.
Um,hello,they are the FIRST FAMILY.
Yes,Obama's kids are worth WAY more then you,and your entire family.Deal with it.
It's called class.Some are upper class,some are lower class.
the fact that you think another human life is "worth" more, or "better" than another is disgusting.
You belong in the turnip fields in the 1200's. Bushing the mud and grime off your food, while your king sits in his castle.
@freedom
I guess we should implement a socialst regiem,where everyone is of 'one class' and free.Sounds like a Nazi to me.
We can move and leave socialclasses by being better people.You just want everything done for you.
Lord, what a bunch of idiots we have on here..............
Yet in the most recent shotgun shooting in a school an UNARMED teacher managed to get the shooter to surrender. That is not only brave but shows what a good teacher can achieve.
Carrying concealed weapons in school is fine by some so called Law makers.
So why are concealed weapons (with legal permit to carry) banned on Airlines?
Are we any better than the Taliban??
Really??? Oh I didn't know it was so simple....
I guess you should have told the Sandy Hook Principal and psychologist how simple it is..
Repeal the 2nd amendment
Once you appeal the 2nd amendment, you might as well aim for the rest... namely, the 9th & 14th amendments...
You are retarded.....your mother should have swallowed the night you were conceived...
The local high schools and middle schools have had a full-time police presence for nearly twenty years – since the "100,000 new police" initiative by the Clinton administration. Elementary schools have random police presences. I have never heard any complaints about the police (or their guns) being in the schools, so it does not appear to be an issue in the community.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
good to know even the supreme court decided the police dont have to protect us. maybe that'll serve as some notice for you anti gun nuts. I'll protect myself thank you very much. oh and if you dont think guns protect go read about that mom that protected herself an her daughter. mind you the guy still was able to get up and drive away after 5 rounds. and that was 1 person. she would have been screwed with 2 or more ppl.
Simply awesome!
I like my guns, but, this is just stupid.
No it's not stupid. Every situation in which I was attacked or threatened, it was this type of training to think that saved me. Everything is a potential weapon or has potential to defend. It's about time we started teaching this. Training keeps people calm and clear thinking. For those of us who chose not to have guns 100% of the time, this works. Not everyone will be safe, but even a gun won't save everyone.
I'll bet this gun wasn't in a locked metal gun cabinet. People, LOCK UP YOU'RE GUNS when you're not home. These kids aren't buying guns, they're getting them from home.
LOCK EM UP.! ! !
It is something NRA does not want you to believe i.e. all guns used in massacres were obtained legally. None of the mass murderer was a street thug
If they were stolen from their parents, then that's ILLEGAL. Numbskull.
Taking something that is not registered to you but a family member or friend without their permission is called "stealing".
What's worse is the kid who shot up Hook was known to be mentally unstable but his parents weren't smart and responsible enough to keep their weapons under lock. Even if you don't have kids you should always keep guns locked up.
Mass murder gun deaths per year in the US on average >100.
Thug murder on the streets of the inner cities per year in the US on average <12,000.
Thug murderers with their illegal guns man not be the ones causing mass murders, but the mass of their murders is far, far greater. If you want to solve gun crime, you must deal with the gun crime that accualy exists, not the gun crime that you fear might could exist.
Guarding our schools would be a great job for military service members who are transitioning out of the service.
A lot of them seem to have PTSD, this sounds like a good idea to you? Brilliant...
Yes, every one of them has PTSD and is therefore totally unemployable. Ludacris.
Military is not trained to shout "Drop your weapons" like police, they are trained to kill. Imagine an army of armed men suffering from PTSD, shooting parents and random people because they suspected someone was about to attack them.
I hope they find you first.
You make it sound as though EVERY Solder that is discharged is a TIMEBOMB WAITING TO EXPLODE. You had better look around, there could be a veteran standing behind you in the grocery store.
Seriously? Trained to shoot and kill you? You need to stop watching movies....forever. We are not trained to kill immediately unless returning fire when fired directly upon. There are Use of Force levels that we (across all branches) have to abide by, maybe it's the "volunteers" that probably have some range time that you need to worry about because I've seen a good amount of people who have tons of range time freeze when it matters. Next time you take the time to comment on something, know what the hell you're talking about. Thanks.
You sir are a moron, not everyone has PTSD, and the miitary while not a police force is presently actively engaged in training foreign police forces AND militaries. With exception to a few folks on here, every idiot feels the need to post unfounded, rediculous bull crap on these discussion forums. The reality of the world we live in IS that we in fact need to protect ourselves, but let us not get confused with paranoya, but in fact being prepared and knowing how to defend ourselves against evil. The world we live in is slowly coming apart, as the fabric of society is being torn apart daily. Are guns needed...? Well that is up to each individual to decide.
Nice idea but for one I think you still might have to pay them unless you want them to live in the school basement eat in the cafeteria. For two I have the highest respect for the military but not all make good civilian police or guards and third quite a few have ptsd not the majority by any means but more than one or two
I like, own and collect guns. Not for hunting, not for personal defense just for what they are. I have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License) but I don’t carry. I have many other interests in life and guns never really take center stage. However, I enjoy owning/collecting them. My guns are safely locked away with three layers of security protection. While I don’t support any ban on weapons or high capacity magazines, I do support stronger background checks, would advocate mandatory gun safety training, possibly with periodic refreshers. Frankly, going through legal training every 5 years as part of the CPL requirements is very beneficial. Understanding the legal consequences of using a weapon even as a last resort and even under the castle law is a real eye opener and should guide you in your decision making process. I think better education and training might be solid step forward. I am interested in your thoughts and comments. I am not taking a political stance here, just hoping for some fresh insights.
The problem is all the training in the world isnt going to prevent a Sandy Hook from reoccuring. Nor is a ban on magazines or assult weapens. We need a fire wall if you will. We need something to block or prevent a school shooting from occurring. The only way to prevent a school shooting is to have someone in the school and outside the school prepared to stop it before it occurs. End of story, that's the only way to prevent it. We have to stop thinking we want to prevent mass shootings. We should be thinking we want to prevent any shooting, one life is just as important as 30 lives.
The gunmen will first kill the guard, and then enter. Armed guards only kill mentally deranged people who wave a knife or sc rewdriver threatening to do something. They can not defend against NRA lunatics who will first shoot the guard before he realizes what hit him.
Chat Pata, you must never fly then. I can't imagine what irrational fear mongering world you live it. It must be truly terrifying.
I live in real world, not a fantasy world like yours. The first target is always an armed man. No amount of training can stop a carnage. Only a comprehensive ban on assault rifles can stop them.
There are still shootings at schools with armed guards. There is not enough money to hire enough guards to make that a "Solution". I really don’t like the idea of teachers having guns. I am a teacher and I can tell you that is not a good idea. I could not carry it around while I am walking around the room trying to help students. It would scare a lot of student, it would be forever getting caught on desks and tables and chairs. So I would have to leave it in a locked box. What good is that if a kid or crazy guy comes through the door with a gun, I would not have time to get it. Also, with this situation of loaded guns locked all over the school what is the likelihood that teacher is going to at some point leave their keys lying around or drop them. Now you have a situation where students could conceivably find those keys and get to a loaded gun. If all those things are figured out and somehow everything works out perfectly and every teacher becomes a skilled gun packer. In a situation where it may need to be used there is a very good chance that in a school of over a thousand students stray bullets are going through the thin walls and floors to hit unintended targets. Although one bright spot in the teachers packing heat conversation is that it would make teaching the American West much more interesting with the visual of Mr. K wearing a real gun on his hip.
Your idea of a firewall or layers of firewalls is an important thought. How ever is the total answer to the problem armed security. I think not. How many armed guards do you propose to put in a school? If a person is intent on mayhem one guard is probably not going to make much difference. Last I saw there are many sides to most buildings. Guard the front they blast their way in the back. Post a guard outside shoot him in the back when he isnt looking. There are many ways around your guard. Looks like the best solution would be to build are schools like prisons. One entrance no windows that you can get thru with bullet resistant glass in them of course. All of our local schools have many windows facing the street. Nothing to prevent a bunch of gang bangers from driving by and spraying bullets into the class rooms. There are reasonable precautions that can be taken. But no one on either side of the isle wants to discuss them. There is no one but no one willing to pay for even modest improvements to safety. one side says take it from gunowners the other side says take it from the welfare bums. Raise everyone elses taxes just not mine. I alredy pay too much. Locally we had an armed police officer in the schools for many years now there is not even enough money for textbooks or pencils or even fix the leaking roofs No more police officer Everyone wants their taxes lowered well you get what you pay for
Yeah, any crazy bent on mayhem is going after the uniformed guard first 'cause once he's disabled it's all wide open. This would be true in every in any venue including schools. Can you picture someone guarding a school for three uneventful years being at the ready when some idiot opens up with a fifty clip attached to an AR-15?
Why can't posts like this be the norm? It's the only kind that make any sense.
People seem to think the only solutions are the most extreme ones – banning or handing out more weapons.
Totally Agree It seems like for everyone its my way or none at all
Thank you! I guess it is healthy to hear the extreme arguments first to set the perimeters. It is good to understand the whole spectrum of view points. At the end, this might help to advance some reasonable solutions that can actually be implemented. Protect each individuals pursuit of happiness while protecting us as a people from the handfull of misguided creatures out there. I believe that a robust background check is certainly a good idea. Educating and training folks who whish to own a firearm will eventuall pay off as well. Good comments. Thank you!
If you knew how many of the posters here were well paid shills reading their arguments and opinions out of their bosses binders, you would spend less time here. http://consciouslifenews .com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/
Hurry, put on the tin foil helmet!
I mean honestly, you would have to be an id1ot to not recognize that a percentage of the people here are paid to be here. If you couldn;t figure it out for yourself, a quick google search might shed some light on the situation for you. The information is not that difficult to find.
Yes "Perception Management" is a big industry. NRA is just a cover for gun industry, and that is why they want everyone to buy a lot of guns. For a million dollars, these perception management companies can get a thousand guys sitting in india and posting NRA opinion on each and every message board that is out there.
When you start to ban guns – where does it end. Do you need and assault rifle for hunting? No. But when they start to use other guns to do bad things – ban them next? I've been around and owned guns all my life. I enjoy hunting and target shooting. Now your going to tell me I can't do these things because someone took an inanimate object and killed someone with it? The guy had mental issues and guns in the house – shouldn't they have been under lock and key – mine are – they sit in a gun safe with trigger locks – it's not that hard to be responsible with firearms.
They are going after the "instrument" rather than the root cause. Difficult to believe that the agenda wasn't already in the works judging from the reactions and the immediate dismissal of all other issues. I am not trying to lesson the gravity of the situation but where does it stop? Give an inch they take a yard. That's a fact. The opposition doesn't agree that the policy makers are inept 90% of the time and in most cases do not make the right decisions keeping down stream effect as part of their conclusions. The fact government is so completely dysfunctional with every issue presented thinking they will apply the proper thought to this is unimaginable.
Yes, if everyone in the world acted responsibly, life would be good. Assault weapons do not belong in the public sphere. I have rights too. The government is not going to take your guns. I also believe a law should be passed, that if someone takes your guns and uses them to slaughter people, you are going to prison along with them.
Yesterday's CA shooting used a shotgun. Those must be next. Considering handguns (the most "safe") are used in the most murders in the US, why are AWs on the chopping block?
Because it's so much easier to pretend you've accomplished something when you just blame objects instead of taking a closer look at why people do horrible things.
As a mom in AZ I do not want these "posse" people anywhere near my children's school. If they show up there, I'll pull my kid out. These are not sheriff deputies, just some yahoos off the street with guns. There's no mention on whether they did background checks on them. Any of them could be molesters, crazy enough to shoot up a school, or just overreact to a perceived threat. No thank you!!
A "Posse" of senior citzens who have nothing better to do? I feel safer already. People need to wake up. Put guards in all the schools and the crazy people will shoot them first. The problem with our country isn't guns, or politics. Its that the average citizen just isn't that bright.
Which is preferable, shooting the guard first, which gives teachers and administrators the warning they need to protect the children, or heading straight to the classroom? We are waking up to the reality of a dangerous world, and while you may not like the solution, unless you have a better solution (and banning guns isn't a solution, it's an ideology) then you go with what you have.
The Second Ammendment was written in the context of a debate around states rights vs. federalism. It gave legislators who valued states rights a nod in that they could muster a militia (today's National Guard). The word "individual" does not appear in the ammendment; the word "militia" does. These are simply historical facts. Also, the idea random people with assault weapons would keep us safe from some "tyranny" seems a bit impractical. BTW, I am not anti-gun. I just have issue with the historical references that come that are inaccurate and lack basic research.
Prove your own point please and try and get the drop on a guard somewhere. Put us all out of YOUR misery.
Hey CNN... where is the interview between Shapiro and Morgan? Finally someone that is representative of the majority of gun owners in the US and you hide the video like cowards. For anyone interested – go to breitbart. com It's at the top of the page.
They're too busy touting a video of Morgan talking to a mentally incapacitated man (Alex Jones) because it's more entertainment than news.
The questions still remains: Why does anyone need an assault rifle and guns which use magazine clips? The right to bear arms was written in a time where these type of weapons did not exist.
A great deal has changed since the Second Amendment was adopted. There needs to be an appropriate balance between public safety and private liberty........
The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when citizens had the same firepower as the government, and was written with the understanding that citizens are sovereign and should have the ability to overthrow the tyranny of government (even a "benevolent" one, as if there is such a thing). That has not changed, but the level of firepower has. Do you think citizens would be able to counter a government when one has a peashooter and the other and automatic weapon with hundreds of thousands of taxpayer-purchased rounds? The 2nd Amendment was never about hunting – it was about the basic, inalienable right to self-defense, and in particular the ability to defend against a tyrannical government.
Do you ever do any research before logging in? Most murders aren't even caused by AWs.
This is fast becoming a tired, meaningless talking point.
Civilians had access to the same weapons as soldiers back then. And hasn't anyone looked at the prices for some of these weapons? 60 Minutes did a segment on how civilians could buy a 50 caliber sniper rifle legally and about how powerful it is and such... But not once did they mention why no one has used one – it costs $8000.
Many weapons are cost-prohibitive.
The whole debate has become one long harangue against firearms and firearms owners. Those who are screaming the loudest don't know enough about firearms to even have an intelligent conversation regarding the subject.
No such thing as "assault ammo." No such thing as 'high capacity ammo," No such thing as a "high capacity gun." All these terms have been used by media pundits. I've heard such straight out lies and misinformation regarding firearms that it's obvious they come from the mouths of hoplophobes.
Hoplophobe – An individual with an unreasonable fear of weapons in and of themselves, or of the practice of weaponcraft, who refuses to be properly educated about the subject out of such a fear. From the Greek hoplon meaning tool or weapon and phobes meaning abject paralyzing fear.
hope you liberals take a close look at your paychecks today. If your check seems a little low, call your daddy – obama.
Of course your GOP Loons fought so hard to keep the payroll holiday intact. And also , they fought very hard to stop the increase of social security tax just like the did for the 1%. Who cares abt FACTS anymore?
I think I'll spend my dime calling Bhoner and the Repub Do nothing congress
The only time I saw armed guards around schools was when I was working and living in Iraq in 1989. Saddam Hussein had a tight control on the country at that time and it was a military state. Sure.........thats what we need, armed guards minding our children. With all our education, our commitment to democracy, is this what we really think will solve this problem?
We arrive in rusty 1964 motorhomes and we camp in Walmart's parking lot.
We bring our bibles and loaded assault weapons.
We wear ridiculous clothing and have teabags dangling from our earlobes.
We carry misspelled racist signs as we stomp all over the White House lawn.
We are Sarah Palin's 'real Americans'.
We love the baby jesus but we love to boink our cousins even more.
We believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that early man walked with the dinosaurs.
We believe that nascar is a real sport and that Dale Earnhardt was a great American athlete.
We are the birthers. We are the tea party.
We are republicans. We are morons... we are proud.
You Betcha! Funny but pretty much spot on.
Once again, the school shooting in Cali yesterday happened with a STOLEN gun. This time a shotgun, NOT an assault rifle. Banning specific guns is not the answer because the guns will still exist, and therefore can be stolen. We need penalties on owners that are careless enough to allow these guns to be stolen and used for violence. I don't want to take your guns away, and I want to ensure that no one else can take them either.
I don't get it. Everybody is in such an uproar over armed guards in schools. We have armed guards in banks, and even malls I've seen. Protect the $$$ but no 'think about the children'?
That is right! what is with the uproar about Tanks and attach helicopters in school? We do this in Afghanistan and whatmenistan all the time. I feel way safer if every school had a gun tower tio shoot the enemy. We need anti air capabilities as well just in case the terrorist trys another 9/11 on schools!
I think it would be difficult, if not impractical to attach a helicopter to a school. Would you attach it to the top or the side? And thanks for Not answering my question. 🙂 Toodles!
People always attacked banks because they wanted the money they had. It's an age-old occurrence.
People didn't used to go after schools. This is a disturbing new trend.
They have gone after schools. look up the 1927 bombing of a school. Worst mass murder (school) in our history.
I have visited the United States of America many times, mostly as part of family vacations. I must admit; however, all of this gun rhetoric is really making me think hard about future family vacation destinations. I think the hard part for me to reconcile is the fact that there are so many violent crimes involving guns yet at the same time I find the people of the U.S.A. to be very easy-going and friendly. I don't know what the future will hold for us in terms of family vacations or whether the "United" in U.S.A. will prevail and a workable solution will be found. From the outside looking in, all we see is a pre-occupation with guns. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. All the best!
There is nothing wrong here in the US it is mostly people using a tragedy to promote a political agenda. They are using this tragedy to turn the focus away from the real problems (the economy) and to create even more divisiveness. The real issue is we have a government who cannot govern and they are trying to distract us from that fact. Unfortunately, we elected these clowns.
To be fair we elected the clowns in our recent history who have been using Wars (on drugs, countries, and so on) to shift attention away from the issues at home. Look as far back as the First gulf war or Vietnam...
What ? just armed guards? That is NOT enough. We need M1A1 Abraham tanks and Apache attack helicopters as well!
Where is my seal team 5 to walk my kids to school? AK 47 for every kid! Thats how we do it Americans!
It is a rather sad commentary on the state of our society when we have to post armed guards in our schools.
You're not a Gawd Fearing, second amendment worshipping Patriot. Get of here.!
Leave it to STUPID Americans to do exactly the wrong thing. No one else in the world would put armed guards in their schools – they would ban the damn assault rifles and big magazines. Not in this STUPID country full of RED NECK MORONS. Hey – maybe your house will be attacked by a hundred rabbits and you will need the assault rifle to fight them off:) Assault rifle has one purpose – kill people. Even in the army we kept them in a locked arms room and you get to use it only in a supervised environment – in STUPID America civilians can carry them down the street with no supervision at all. Everyone I hear screaming for the right to own one has an IQ of about 10. The very people who should not be allowed to own one.
Shouldn't you be reporting to homeroom right about now?
No one is suggesting we let anyone and everyone carry assault rifles. Actual assault rifles are hard to get in the non-black market. The ban of "assault rifles" in this nation is based off of purely cosmetic and arbitrary guidelines.
Even still, that's not even the point of this article. This article is about safety in schools and the possible inclusion of trained individuals already in the school system to carry guns. When you take this article and try to force it to be a debate about gun control and banning assault rifles, when they weren't even mentioned, you look like the ignorant rednecks you hate so much. I know you lefties entertain some fantasy that you're just exempt from ignorance, but don't be blinded.
Dear Larry,
While I have to respect your opinion, I do not agree with it. I think that placing armed personnel in or around our schools is exactly the right answer. We have armed security personnel at airports, banks, even shopping malls. If we can recognize the threat to these facilities and place trained, armed people in them to protect them, why can't we, why won't we, offer the same protection to our schools and children?
More laws aren't going to solve anything. Only those who abide by the law will be affected – anyone at any time of day or night can go and buy an illegal gun off the street if they wish.
Oh... you mean like the private school in D.C. where Washington's elite send their kids that has had armed security guards for a long time now? That, by the way, is in addition to the heavily armed Secret Service detail that spends it's days there protecting the Presidents children.
Larry, I think that you are being very narrow in your view. I am a gun owner, I am not a stupid redneck with an IQ of 10. I believe by banning guns you are taking them out of the hands of Law Abiding citizens that are willing to protect their families. Criminals will still get there hands on anything. Look at drugs, it is illegal but they are still in our schools all over the country. They are even in jails where there are tight security measures.
It's amazing to me that the NRA wants to increase our taxes in order to provide armed guards in the schools. I'd rather see laws to get guns out of people's hands. Let's use the resources we already have to address this instead of increasing taxes to hire a bunch of armed guards.
Just a thought, M.P.s (military police) could patrol schools as far as part of thier civilian training. They are already being paid and they are required to train in that type of inviroment ,
Interesting thought but I think it may violate the posse comitatus act that forbids using the military as civilian law enforcement. The idea does have merit provided it is legal.
Taxes to pay for more guns in school is exactly what we need in this economy!
Arizona again is taking care of this on their own and not waiting around for some federal govt lackey to do something. just like they did with illegal immigration. crime rates plummeted after that, but the media wont tell you those details.
Damn straight! Arizona is the model of the next America! Arm guards for ALL. Guns for ALL! Taxes for the poor and the dying! No Taxes for the RICH! To be RICH is GLORIOUS! To be Armed to the teeth is fulfilling our forefathers prophecy!
We in Arizona do the gun rights thing very well, we do not as well on the rest of issues that plague society, but we are vigilant, but not crazy like Texas.
This talk of armed personnel in schools is crazy, the best way to fix this problem of shootings is to have better gun control, you restricts peoples access to guns, it then becomes much harder to get one and shooting people.
Its not crazy! Obamacare where everybody gets free health care is crazy! Arm guards is our right! Arm anything is our right! We should make it so easy to buy guns that even your local 7/11 should carry it! Start teaching your 6 year old how to shoot right. That's how we stop the stalkers and the Russians and Gawd forbid, Alien invasion too.
@Daniela If you want to live in a gun free societ you are free to leave the United States. I think this is one of just 5 countries that let citizens own fire arms. You might want to try China. No citizens guns 100%! Since the government sent 4.5 million jobs over there, finding work should be EZ! Just keep this in mind: when a gun man shoots 5 or more over here its a MASSACRE. In China when the police shoot 5 or more its CROWD CONTROL!
When gun owners are at work, where are their guns? If in a safe, is it big and heavy enough to prevent someone from just picking it up and taking it? In the city of Memphis, home burglaries during the day while occupants are at work are high. Even with home security systems, it doesn't take long to run in the house and grab televisions, computers, and ... guns. The Mayor of Memphis is trying to make stricter laws for stealing guns. Gangs love the NRA because there are gun shops on every corner, homes more often than not, have a gun, and most gun owners can't take their guns to work. And gang members don't have to worry about gun owners shooting them if they break into their homes while they are working.
In the news today, the officers will be paid from the Board of Education's budget. How come city, county, state, and federal government issue new taxes and fees to gun owners and NRA for buy, sell, and using gun to pay for services of police officers? The problem related to gun have to be paid by gun onwers. Nothing is for free.
Well with that ideal we should be charging the folks that are insane!
Security within the school system is the best bet. Back in the late 60s we had guards in the schools .
Damn straight! Back in the 1800s everybody had a gun! Why not now? With all the training from computer games like COD and major advances to weapons manufacturing, even my 3 year old can carry a Mp5 and pull the trigger to mow em down. Shooting is easier then abc. If you think they can't aim, its OK, double the size of the magazine! Its bound to kill someone!
I am glad to see that schools are getting training to teachers in dealing with this issue.
Sad too though that the liberal press has demonized guns. Not too long ago it was common to have firearm target shooting as a school elective...
Things will remain as they are more or less as the gun lobby has the money and he who pays the fiddler chooses the song.So either arm yourself or take on the bad guy hand to hand it's up to you...
Armed Kindergarten Cops on the taxpayer dime. Sounds like typical NRA product placement to me. They'd better hire the coolest cops around, and make sure they come by the classrooms during show-and-tell so the kids get to see, hold, and play with the coolest toy in the school. Gotta get your marketing hooks into 'em while they're young.
I've never seen so many moron'sssss in one place in my life, All you do is find fault with the NRA which has NOTHING to do with the shootings from socko's yet not one of you liberals morons have come up with a plan to try and stop the violence.
Since your all like forest gump. you sit back and do nothing. Leave everything like it is, The school free zone just does not work. The answer is protecting the kids with armed guards until someone can come up with a better idea.
Sir you are spot-on! Stop the problem now. We haven't been able to balence the budget in 5 years. So to think that we have enough wisdom in our Government to complete this task correctly is outragous. For those of you that beleive the US Government will correct this problem should all send your kids to the same school without any security while the "Hill' debates the issue. Each community should come together and protect each other as we did many years ago.
Stop attacking the NRA. We are gawd fearing, gawd worshipping loyal patriots! It is the Armed militia that formed this country! This will have never happened if our forefathers were still around!
Have we all lost our minds?!? Don't believe the gun hype!
Guards/posses/whatever will never prevent a school shooting.
A) Anyone known to be armed would be targeted first.
B) what if the shooter surrenders after killing his target (a bully, ex-girlfriend, or rival)?
The shooter will always have the advantage, so the shooting will always occur.
ARGUMENT FOR PREVENTION: Void
What about shootings off-campus? Even easier.
Mass-shootings: Still gonna happen. They'll just go somewhere else (restaurant, mall, theater, etc). Too many places, not enough cops.
More people with guns: No thanks. Some people will be unwilling to kill in self-defense, others too eager. There are many "law abiding" citizens who shouldn't own a gun. They're the type that is one dumb decision from an accidental shooting. The poster child for this is GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Unfortunately, the usual litmus test being a simple clean criminal record. Inadequate in my book. Dumb laws like the " Castle Doctrine" only encourage irrational behavior. The last thing we need are vigilantes. And no, we are not "under siege" from violent crime. Nor are we going to be invaded anytime soon.
High capacity weapons: Don't need them. There is no need for an "arm race". Assault weapons were developed with one purpose to kill people. The calibers aren't made for hunting game. Don't believe me? Name any type of animal and I will bet you that there is a hunting rifle better suited for the job. Target practice? Why spend $2,000 for an AR-15 just to shoot targets.
Crime prevention: Most shootings aren't random and don't happen "out in public" per se. Only the few, isolated, high- profile cases make national news. They are the exception, not the rule.
Gun training: some would have you believe that gun training will enable your "average joe" to carry a firearm. Most instruction consists of gun operation, gun maintenance, and how to put 10 rounds in a 20cm target. Despite that training, how do you instill discipline and responsibility?
For the record, I own a gun, and believe in gun ownership, so spare me the crap about being a gun hater.
Have you lost your mind ? have you forgotten or even know what the Nazi's did , first they took away the Jewish people's guns , then the people who were not politically reliable and well you know the rest .
Spare me.
Nobody is going to take away guns.
No were not on the path to Nazi Germany. We're following the same path as the Roman Empire.
Jack booted Russians, Chinese and the Nazis. If every Jew had a bushmaster, WW2 would have never happened. Let that be a lesson to America! Never again will we allow the 52nd state of America to be taken over by Nazis.
Haha, "no one is going to take away guns."
Apparently someone hasn't read the text of the New York AWB... confiscation is all over that bill.
You're underinformed.
Where do you people come up with this revisionist history? You think that gun control precipitated WW2 and the holocaust!!! You all need to spend less time reading comic books and more time reading real non-fiction.
Do you really think your owning an AR-15 or any firearm will protect you from the US military? Have you not watched TV over the last, oh I don't know, 40 years and seen what happens to indigenous populations that resist the US military? You might as well be armed with slingshots when put up against the might of the US military. Remember "they" have aircraft, automatic weapons, smart bombs, armored vehicles....and you think owning a rifle will somehow make you invincable. You sound like Muslim Jihaad.
Well put. Beefing up the security in schools is ludicrous. This reads like a science fiction novel where the population has gone insane and can't see the solution in front of their eyes. Gun control is the only solution to this insane issue. You need a license to drive a car, why not to own a firearm? We accept that civilians can't own fully automatic weapons and cannons, why not assault rifles that also have no legitimate purpose? We fight for our second ammendment rights for fear of a government takeover, yet live in a reality of mass killings.
You dont need a ID to vote so why do you need a license to get a gun? Voting is just as powerful as shooting! If Hitler became president or Michele Bachman became president you think thats not the same ?
Years ago,when I was but a small Lad.... I got my first 22 rifle-s/shot. It was well worn out, but I had it for years and years.., and I squirrel hunted, rabbit hunted, fished with it, grew up with it.... Never, never could I imagine that people
would become what they have become Today.
I feel sorry for the kids today.... no imagination what so ever.... Complete lack of foresight!!!
How can anyone grow up and not be able to "learn" a little something along the way??????
Her again is the incorrect thought process. Over a million assalt weapons are sold in the US alone each year. Over 40,000 guns were sold in Tenn during the 10 days after the Newtown incident. Tenn has averaged over 80,000 in sales the past few years. This is where we stand whether you like it or not. I advise you all to study the facts and help other do the same. Right now the personal solution is for you to arm yourself and learn some basic tactical strategy. People shoot criminals in their homes every day and this seems to only get worse by the year.
All of this is just knee-jerk reaction by people who haven't a clue. The only answer is a steadfast system of security by every school. Schools should be difficult to access, no free entry, bulletproof glass on doors, locks on all doors, including closets, etc. The plan of action should include lock-down, blocking all windows on doors, and an intercom system to let everyone know what is going on. The Connecticut school proved this. Without it, according to the police, hundreds could have died. "Armed administrators" is questionable. Perhaps a few armed teachers in the school, members who lead the security team, could be armed and on call through the intercom or radio. These decisions should be made individually by each school according to their population and community. We will waste millions on security if the response to the Connecticut tragedy is not thought through by professionals in school security.
The irony is, in twenty years the police or private security services will probably be able to place remote-controlled drones armed with riot-control gas and beanbag launchers everywhere they'd place a closed-circuit camera today. No more need to wait for the police to come, they'll just log on from HQ and knock down the bad guys within seconds. What cheap sound-bite arguments will the NRA have to resort to, then?
Without a doubt, America has gone completely off it's rocker. Completely nuts. Violence at home, violence around the world. A danger to themselves and a danger to the world. No sense of social balance, caring about each other, or the death of the environment. We have become a very large psych unit.
I belive we need armed POLICE in schools. A trained professional. Not a wanna be law man. I live in Bedford County Tennessee. Here we have a county deputy assigned to every school in the county! We are a small & basically poor county, but we found the money to protect our children. The program has been in place since 2002.
A sworen trained law enforcement officer would be a better choice than a possy. The untrained person may get over zealous and we could end up w/a nother Martin-Zimmerman situation. This would be bad for all! Also since Tennessee started the program drug use in our schools went down, every so often (in the big cities) the officers find guns students bring to school, got the "Man" on sight kicken' it with facultny & students. Please don't hide behind the all mighty dollar, for a reason not to secure our schools w/armed law enforcement. Your town or county right now has a cop crusing up & down the road looking for crime. Why not save your town or county some money, save gas. Take the street cop & put him/her in the school house!
FABULOUS comments. The best response I have seen, including my own. I like your recommendation.
To MasterBlaster: I also appreciate your calm collective thoughts suggesting police officer(s) in all schools. I understand there are metal detectors in many large urban schools. What do you think about this option in addition to police protection for our children? Better yet, is it today's socialization which has created the problem in the first place? Seems to be a collective set of problems which have caused this crisis.
We need Seal team 5 at every school. Just like a republican congressman once proposed, we need to SECRETLY train a select few how to use a bush master and then arm them to carry it openly at schools! Imagine the fear in the eyes of the intruder when he realizes he is dealing with a professional gun slinger! Gawd Damn! Pow Pow Pow! i can just imagine it.
so this is like going to war. so kids will be surrounded by armed men and women. so this is like bringing war into the everyday life. this is perhaps the most psychotic reaction to the problem.
The problem may appear complicated but the solution is so simple. 35,000 people were killed by guns in your country last year. If there were NO GUNS, how many of those would be alive today? On a per capita basis, Canada has a miniscule fraction of gun owners and our gun murder statistics reflect it.
Signed: A Canadian who loves America.
Mortimer, your "simple" solution is not so simple. Please explain how you would actually collect all of the guns? Do you think the bad guys are going to hand theirs over?
Mortimer, I agree with you 100%. No one could argue that a country without a single gun would be a country without a single gun death. But that's an unrealistic and undesirable approach. The best path toward better gun control is finding where gun control advocates and gun owners agree. Most everyone on both sides agrees that a strong system of universal background checks, bans on assault weapons and large capacity magazines are the urgent needs. Call for these changes, and you build consensus or at least have a quality debate. Call for the removal of all guns, you just get more bitter divisiveness.
Well we in here USA believe in our right to own weapons to protect us from a tyrannical government–which ours is becoming. While the deaths/year are a terrible thing, living under oppression is far worse. I would trade my life so that others may live free and many others feel the same way. Once guns are taking away from the individuals what is stop us from ending up like people living in China?
Paranoid and delusional is no way to live life.
You have a point except the thought is narrow. The US out weighs Canada in many catagories, including drug addiction, robbery, rape, and murder. If these shooting incidents were actually commited with a machete as in what is happening in China's elementary schools atleast once a week, "BAN ALL MACHETES". We have spent the last 12 years on terrorizm and forgotten how to defend ourselfs against our own sick!!! The mentally ill who want to hurt other will find a way even if it is poison. We need to defend ourselfs logically by analyzing the situation we have now. Tighten the law we have and make the gun owner responsible for each specific gun because removing them would be the same as removing machetes, impossible. Beef up security throughout the nation, our children are worth it!
I'd love to know where you came up with 35000? Because in 2010, according to factcheck.org, there were about 10,000. But good job inflating the number 3.5 times to cause histeria. Gotta love Canadians talking about a country they wish they lived in.
hmmm sounds like a totally "gun logical solution". where do these people come from? think about it, if you need to arm the school, then you must arm the mall, all the university and college building, the churches, the parks, the bingo halls, and obviously every fing building or place where more than 5 people are – the list is endless.
this is NOT a solution, it's just insanity!
Those police present at the Newtown school when it opened again...did they have their service weapons?
If they did then why aren't those that decry ...more guns isn't the answer outraged. The vocal liberals want it both ways no more guns except the ones we say are okay.
Crosby, I'm sure you're unaware of this, but when you make assumptions about "liberals", you look like kind of a nut case. The people you call "liberals" are just people, like you. The reason you didn't hear anyone complain about the police having a nearby presence and being in possession of their guns is because the people who would complain about that exist only in your imagination. I'm sure it sometimes seems like the world is full of the kinds of awful stereotypes you hear about on talk radio, but you're confusing entertainment with reality. "Liberals" are a figment of your imagination.
fayray, once you disarm all the bad guys, call back and we can talk about taking guns from the law-abiding. Until you can assure protection from the bad guys with guns, don't expect others to give up their self-defense.
I'm armed at church. I'm armed in stores. I'm armed at home. There are very few places in Kentucky I can't carry a concealed firearm. I'm a licensed permit holder. I fire my guns regularly. I'm responsible with it. I stay away from gun free zones unless I have to. People talk all the want about the people killed by firearms but they never say anything about the people that save their lives and their families with firearms. Personal experience talking.
As for the person that made the comment about "war," you don't have ANY idea what war is. Before you start making comments, talk to a veteran. Someone who has actually seen war. Until then, don't talk.
So they added security cameras, like that will stop an armed intruder. Here is the problem, someone could walk into that school today and do the same thing. Would the school then scratch their heads and reconsider putting armed teachers or guards in the school? Or does need to happen three times?
Lets just hope none of the guards were in the national guard at Kent State in 1970 ! Why ? Do a search of Kent State 1970 for the answer ! Americans don't need guns ?
Time to get out of Dodge folks. America is getting crazier by the day. NZ, AUS, CA, and UK are looking better and better to me.
Please leave, we won't miss you.
That's where you're wrong....you WILL miss him....because there will be one less sensible citizen down there to try to get your country a little more civilized than what it is at present.
The whole world is laughing at you ...and scared at the same time....
You cannot afford to lose any logically thinking citizens!!! Soon you will be left with nobody but crazy gun toting maniacs.
Come to Canada much more gun control, and a lot less uneducated fools.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz2HQDkC3re
Hello. Try the Daily Mail.
Validate your 2nd Amendment Rights.Carry.
Monday, January 21, 2013 is Presidential Inauguration Day for Barrack Hussein Obama.
How embarrassing would it be for the President, if the NRA and all its supporters, and all the Americans who support the right to own a gun, decided to march in protest on Washington that day.
What if they picked that day to demand to be heard?
Do you suppose that would interrupt his Inauguration?
Do you suppose that would interrupt the Inaugural Balls?
Do you suppose it’s going to happen?
Do you think it will start near the Lincoln Memorial?
Yeah.. cause the NRA doesn't already have enough control over Washington...
All these great ideas...until it comes time to pay for the armed guard in every school...then you will hear a different tune. As long it doesn't come out of your pocket it's great!
That's why i oppose it. I just don't feel it is feasible. When I was in High School, my school district had their very own police force, not just school guards, but that's only because I went to a wealthy school district. With all these cuts going on, I think it would be less expensive to just regulate the guns/regulate who has them rather than expecting school districts to have to pay for guards or w/e.
7.9% unemployment rate. Imagine how many people we could put to work.
Or better yet, use retired police officers. Men and women who have been trained. Give them a uniform, pay them part time wages. I'm assuming most of these retirees already have some sort of pension/retirement fund. A little extra money probably wouldn't hurt them, and would be a minimal expense to the taxpayer.
Plus, if we could curb the spending spree in Washington, we could probably afford whatever we wanted. But thats a different story.
rockbike
Unfortunately perhaps we've arrived at the point where we do need have armed folks in schools. The NRA solution to the gun-related tragedies is: (1) arm the teachers, and (2) approved folks should be able to by assault weapons with high capacity magazines.
Okay, here's a potential scenario. Mrs. Brown is presiding over her kindergarten class, and she's packing a 9 mm Glock under her jacket. She has 16 rounds in the clip and one in the chamber. This is a great gun and a skilled handler can do some serious damage. In storms an attacker with his Bushmaster 223. He has an assault weapon equipped with a high capacity magazine. He can fire 5-6 rounds per second. There is a high probability that he will outgun Mrs. Brown and her handgun. (Remember those bank robbers armed with similar weapons that completely outgunned an entire squad of FBI agents and policemen? They basically shot their way out of a bank, and then shot their way down the street.) The worst scenario is that a gun fight will break out between a person yielding normal weapon (e.g., a 9 mm) and a crazy person with an assault weapon that is capable of firing 6 rounds per second. Remember that an assault weapon is designed to keep the enemy (in war) pinned down so that fellow troop members can complete the assault. What the NRA is describing is the proverbial "taking a knife to a gun fight".
Responsible gun owners interested in preserving the 2nd amendment should speak up for *reasonable* gun rights!
I am all for the 2nd amendment (as I type this I have several guns within an arms reach), but assault weapons should not be sold to the general public. Period. It's time for responsible and reasonable gun owners to speak up and not be strong armed by extremist NRA agendas.
Your guns digust me as well as the detailed way you have thought out the above situation of a shooting...
Guns are awful...shame on everyone who owns one!
"disgust" -lol
You sound as fragile as a feather you pushover. Guns are here, guns will stay per our rights. As you can see your opinion is insignificant It was invented by a man, just like any other meaningful invention in this world, this is a man's world hon.
We don't have to imagine a ruthless massacre. The situation has been repeated many times, except the school teachers weren't armed. In the last 6 months there have been ~12 mass shootings. This is a reality!
There are huge logical failures in your plan. 1) Millions of "assault weapons" already exist in the United States. No law will make them disappear. Every single gun that existed the day before the '94 gun ban was still there the day after the 'ban' took effect. The same is true with the millions of magazines which held more than ten rounds. 2)We have completely open borders. There's not a town in America where drugs don't come over the border or are made here and are easily available.
The ban on alcohol was a failure. The ban on drugs is a continuing failure. At some point we have to start addressing the causes of the problems instead of the symptoms.
the point i think everyone seems to be missing is if the boys mom was a resposible gun owner the guns would have been in a safe with trigger locks . That would have saved her life and many others . She knew her son better than most other people so she had the best chance to prevent this before it happened .
wow! 5-6 rounds per second, I never knew an AR-15 could do that. I don't think I could pull a trigger that many times in a second.
Dude has been watching WAAAAAY too many movies. A Bushmaster .223 can only fire as many shots as you can pull the trigger, just like ANY semi-auto gun manufactured in the world. If you can pull a trigger 5-6 times in a second, you would hold a world record.
Its obvious you've never shot a gun, probably have never seen one in real life, and have no business commenting here.
Sorry, if you knew anything about guns you'd know that if he had a bushmaster .223 semi auto, it would literally have the same fire rate as that glock(which is also semi auto). The only advantages he has is more rounds and "sturdier" firing. But in a classroom, with a trained shooter(the teacher), they could take out that guy before he fired off a round. As far as that bank robbery, those guys literally had ILLEGAL AUTOMATIC guns. So those guns were illegal to start with, which obviously did them good..... Learn about guns and you learn that they aren't the reason these killings are happening.
Following this same school of thought, you're all for "reasonable" exercise of free speech, except when your words reach too many people.
Or for allowing a "reasonable" amount of women and black people to vote.
Or to have a "reasonable" amount of privacy in your own home, unless your house is really big, in which case police can saunter in and look through all your stuff.
Your argument is not well thought out.
I am not sure what guns you own, but you aren't very knowledgeable about the ar 15. there is no way with a semi automatic to fire 5-6 rounds per SECOND. this is a semi automatic rifle. 1 pull of the trigger = 1 bullet fired.
In 2011, almost 13,000 people were murdered with a weapon. Of those, 1,700 people were killed with knives; almost 500 were killed with hammers, bats, and clubs; and 728 were killed by another's bare hands. Statistics show only 323 people were killed with rifles. That's just 2.5 percent of all weapon-related murders.
Go far away with your gun rights...when you have to worry about a child in this ridiculous world full of guns, come back to me.
Unfortunately you are not using the right comparisons. You need to know the total number of people who were injured by each of these things. For example, although 500 were killed with hammers, bats, and clubs, how many were injured using a hammer, bat or club? I guarantee you it was well more than 500 or even 15000. While the number of people who were shot with rifles was likely not that much more than the 323 people who were killed with rifles. While only 2.5 percent of all weapon-related murders may be from rifles, the fatality rate is MUCH, MUCH higher. Violence by any means is important to prevent. However, I would like to give innocent people and children a fighting chance to survive. I'll take more hammers and less assault rifles any day.
I am surprised that Ted Turner allows this guy to work at CNN.As a child I idolized Captain Outrageous.
Openly delusional people should not be allowed near guns nor schools. For instance – if you honestly think our Commander in Chief was born in Kenya, and/or is a Muslim, and/or is a socialist/communist… If any of these delusions bounce around in your head – step away from your gun, stay away from our children and seek psychiatric help.
And if you think Obama is trying to make the US a better place, you also need to step away from guns. Better yet, move out. We don't need you id10ts in the USA.
Sounds like you are saying you are delusional if you think that just because something quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like it's a duck, it's a duck. Who can't produce a copy of their birth certificate (that's not been photo shopped). Who supports the muslim brotherhood and seems to not support Israel? Who proposed socialist health care and pushed it through?
The bulk of guns currently allowed today need to be outlawed. This trend of arming people in schools and adding guns in schools will only lead to more shootings. We need to teach our kids about not using guns to solve issues. I do not support fighting but if a disagreement occurs leave the weapons out of the fight. Using just your hands can still lead to bad results but likely no deaths will result and teachers can break it up. The NRA supporting arming everyone is serving their purpose not what is good for the country.
David, I would like to agree with you, but I cannot. Can you assure anyone that bad guys won't have guns? That is my problem. That gun laws simply do not work. Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC are all good examples of this. The government cannot ensure our safety from those who have guns. People must be able to protect themselves.
Because outlawing meth and cocaine have been effective at removing those from the streets?
Do you believe in climate change? I'm guessing you do and you probably ridicule those that don't because of the overwhelming evidence it exists. Well, guess what, you're just as guilty of ignoring evidence as those you ridicule. Criminals aren't going to give up the weapons they have – by definition they don't obey the laws. So by outlawing the guns you effectively disarm the honest people and put them at a disadvantage. Every significant study has shown that when stricter gun laws are in place crime goes up. How can you ignore that?
Cities like Chicago that have the strictest gun laws also have the highest rate of gun violence. Columbine occurred while the assault rifle ban and magazine size restrictions were in place. It's painfully obvious that gun control simply does not stop gun violence – it promotes it.
There are so many problems that feed into this it's hard to know where to start. But not the least of which is the polarized political climate we find ourselves in. It doesn't seem we can have a civilized debate anymore. If someone doesn't agree, they are the enemy. Wholly and completely in same category as Hilter or Stalin. That breeds a culture of anger and self-rightousness that pushes nearly everyone involved further to the extremes. I'm not singling out a party or person – both sides are equally to blame.
But please, if you truly want to cut down on gun violence, look at the data objectively. History has proven that banning guns has the opposite effect. Is it counter-intuitive? Seemingly. But if your thought process stops at "If you get rid of the guns, you get rid of the violence" you've already handicapped yourself in the argument.
We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Unfortunately perhaps we've arrived at the point where we do need have armed folks in schools. The NRA solution to the gun-related tragedies is: (1) arm the teachers, and (2) approved folks should be able to by assault weapons with high capacity magazines.
Okay, here's a potential scenario. Mrs. Brown is presiding over her kindergarten class, and she's packing a 9 mm Glock under her jacket. She has 16 rounds in the clip and one in the chamber. This is a great gun and a skilled handler can do some serious damage. In storms an attacker with his Bushmaster 223. He has an assault weapon equipped with a high capacity magazine. He can fire 5-6 rounds per second. There is a high probability that he will outgun Mrs. Brown and her handgun. (Remember those bank robbers armed with similar weapons that completely outgunned an entire squad of FBI agents and policemen? They basically shot their way out of a bank, and then shot their way down the street.) The worst scenario is that a gun fight will break out between a person yielding normal weapon (e.g., a 9 mm) and a crazy person with an assault weapon that is capable of firing 6 rounds per second. Remember that an assault weapon is designed to keep the enemy (in war) pinned down so that fellow troop members can complete the assault. What the NRA is describing is the proverbial "taking a knife to a gun fight".
Responsible gun owners interested in preserving the 2nd amendment should speak up for *reasonable* gun rights!
I am all for the 2nd amendment (as I type this I have several guns within an arms reach), but assault weapons should not be sold to the general public. Period. It's time for responsible and reasonable gun owners to speak up and not be strong armed by extremist NRA agendas.
Everyone thinks about crime and is a potential criminal. Example gun carrier decide he/she is threatened, blows someone away on accident, 'INSTANT CRIMINAL'. More gus=more. criminals=more death period. This civilian population not even the cops, Know nothing about physical security. Sure they could lock up convicts in a giant max. security, even that is subject to be taken over at anytime. So here we go, the answer is really simple, arm everybody, and may the best shot live to see the next day. Funeral home business will be way up, I think i will buy some stocks.
What the "F" are you talking about?
Further, arming untrained teachers and staff adds a new layer of a threat that hasn't been considered. You assume the teacher or staff has a stable mind and sense to protect but what happens with the staff member that abuses that? Or when this 2 week trained gun holding teacher is unable to react? I understand self preservation may work when face with a 1 to 1 interaction. But is it expected for the teacher or staff to be a responsive force until the authorities to arrive? It takes soldiers years to perfect their firing craft, and most of the time when the rounds start to come back, tension and pressure builds up for the soldier and some can't handle it.
Now this teacher or staff trained for 2 weeks is now going to act as Seal Team 6! Another unrealistic option that inserts additional problems into the situation.
A mass murderer doesn't want to die right away. The perceived presence of an armed citizen would deter such would be killer. Hearing a shot from a different source would definitely slow him down ("Hey ! Somebody here can put me down." He's immediately place from an offensive position to a defensive one) and may even abort his plan (If he's disabled or is killed). Combine this armed school staff with 'stop and frisk' then you have a safer learning environment.
We have to accept that this is war against violence. You have to arm your soldiers to be effective.
Are you kidding me?!? Do you really think the Sandy Hook killer would have stopped to think about whether or not a bunch of teachers or the principal was armed? This guy was mentally unstable!
Are these teachers going to wear their guns in holsters all day so that when the killer gets in their room they'll be ready. Are they going to be fast enough to pull their gun before the killer kills them. Are they going to have enough ammunition in their puny clip to out shoot a killer with a bunch of high capacity magazines? Are they going to be able to out duel an AK-47? And what if there is two killers like at Columbine High School? Are they going to have their gun in their desk ready to go? And how many kids will be killed by children curious about the gun in the desk?
This is the wild west scenario of the 21st century and it's complete and total insanity. This is a solution worse than the problem it seeks to remedy.
Please post your education creditials and papers/sources. You are purporting to know the thinking and/or motivation of mass murders. You must have some experience/educatiion/research to back up your reasoning. TV shows don't count. If you don't have any of this, then you have just made everyone more stupid because of it.
NSL, the Sandy Hook attack ended how? By the killer shooting himself when he heard/saw armed police coming. It is a fair assumption that had he seen a teacher/security person with a gun, the same result might/would have happened much earlier, saving lives...
Do you guy really think you can protect your self with gun while you dont even know who is the criminal. US government employ CIA, NSA, and FBI just to safeguard a few terrorist. If every body have gun, you will be in constant fear who will start shooting first. By the time shooting it already late for you to defend.
The more gunfights we have in our schools the more guns will be needed, until we reach that golden day NRA members dream of while they clean their bores and polish their bullets, when every man, woman and child in this country will have to wear a gun to protect themselves from all the other people with guns. Then Americans will be free at last.
The NRA doesn't dream of that day. The NRA wants to protect the rights of those who would like to own a firearm. If you choose not to own a weapon, more power to you. The NRA could care less about your personal choice. You need to understand facts and not just spout off lies.
We're already at the day when people HAVE to arm themselves. We were at that point before the firearm was even invented. Where we are not is the day when people DO arm themselves.
You are as insane and an idiot. More and more guns will only mean more and more death. In your scenario people will see killers around every corner, in ever shadow, behind every tree, under every bridge, and sooner or later, idiots will think they see a crime about to be committed, or think someone walking up to them to ask directions is going to try to hurt them and they will kill them, murder them and call it self defense. It will be like the wild west we all have such a romantic view of, which was actually one of the most dangerous and horrible times of American history which sane people thought was over, but which is coming back to haunt us.
military grade weapons, fat people, fast food, reality tv, reap your culture fatties!!!
I guess we did not learn our lesson two years ago on how it is supposed to happen.
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/aug/30/man-shot-sullivan-central-high-school/
You people seem to incorrectly assume that people who want to harm people will abide by the laws you are proposing. This is terrible logic even on a whiteboard. There will always be a small percentage of the population that acts like an animal. Drop them in their tracks like one. It'll keep happening. Keep dropping them. Repeat. Not very complicated is it.
Totally agree with you Chad. The problem with us is that we are protecting the animals too much and not the innocents!
Gun control laws arent for criminals to follow, they are laws for citizens, manufacturers, and retailers that create barriers for criminals looking for guns. In the end most get guns that came from a gun store.
Wow for whats suppose to the united states of america you think it was at war with each other. Can't any of you be civilized on here. Like honestly I've never seen a country so divided your ether left or right. I mean there is no give or take there is no meaningful conversation on this. We should put politics aside and try to find some middle of the road solution that everyone can live with but its the same BS day in and day out.
AMEN to that! Finally some common sense. One of many...
i so agree. We all bleed no matter what you are right left etc.
Nice to see there are a few of us left. This deamonizing of one another needs to end. Where the ability to compromise is lost democracy dies.
..There is a disastrously stupid idea here with the posses, a 'perimeter of guns', and teachers with guns. A determined gunman will still penetrate such ridiculous defenses because a constant level of alertness cannot possibly be maintained (in Taft, the security officer was not even on the grounds at the time of the shooting). These are not military personel; these are not professionals; these are only good citizens with an idea of 'shooting it out' with WHO ?
..
...Reinstate the ban on ASSAULT WEAPONS and HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES – WHY DO WE NEED THESE ?
..
..The cold, dead, hands of those children.....and the school staff in Newtown...
..
...WITH ALL OF THESE GUNS TO PROTECT US............WHO IS GOING TO PROTECT US FROM ALL OF THESE GUNS ?
.
Will. Not. Work. Why can't you people understand that if someone wants to harm someone else it's going to happen with or without silly laws preventing you from owning harmful objects. Just stop it. Use common sense. Laws aren't going to fix this problem, guards are going to fix this problem. The reason Sandy Hook went the way it did is because nobody was there in time to stop it. Change that and it'll stop happening. Why is that so complicated to comprehend?
I 100% agree with you Chad, me and you see on the same eye level, the more you disarm the law abiding citizens the more advantage you give to the people who don't give a rats ass about the law. A single TRAINED armed guard at every school in the US will help this problem. A guard that's already on site is better then waiting 10-15 minutes for a single cop to arrive.
There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between harming someone and KILLING MANY in a matter of seconds because military grade weaponry is EASILY available with too few checks performed even when purchased legally. The recent KNIFE wielding attack in China left NO CHILD DEAD. PEOPLE LIKE YOU IGNORE REALITY. NO ONE should be able to buy near military grade/military grade weaponry without extensive psychological and criminal background checks paid for by the purchaser. I suspect the reason you wouldn't want such checks is because you wouldn't past them yourself.
The only thing I cant grasp my mind around is this: why do gun manufacturers even have to make these guns?! If high powered assault weapons werent created, how would anyone get them, legally or illegally? You can't have something that doesn't exist. I think we've reached the point where we have enough choice with weaponry, why do we need to keep advancing our technology? Look at how powerful and quick the guns used in Sandyhook were, why does any citizen or criminal EVER need those? And look att eh destruction our guns are causing while crossing the border into Mexico, the creation of our high powered weapons is making it difficult for Mexico to stop the drug cartels because we are arming the cartels through illegal weapons for drugs with better weapons than Mexican police have. Its just not necessary!!!
Primarily, it is to stop a stupid guy from killing a lot of innocent people and thus consequently protect us!
these people are stupid. i suggest they be on the lookout for snipers.
by closing out the inner perimiter, the next deranged lunatic will choose to sit out on a hill-side with a high powered rifle and a scope and pick off targets. if he can't purchase a suitable rifle, he'll simply purchase a regular hunting rifle, bore it out and then use that.
attack the problem at the root.. these bandages will not protect anyone. was not there outrage after columbine; after virginia tech? yet they still wax poetic on the issue.
enforce the existent gun laws (background checks), enforce background checks on 3rd party gun sales (if need be, create a gun exchange where gun owners sell their guns through the exchange - the exchange can be controlled by the fbi or atf - which would ensure that all gun purchasers undergo back ground checks), enforce background checks (at least mental) on all people who want to use shooting ranges (when i get a gym membership, they do some form of background check on me; when i apply for a bank account, they do some form of background check on me).. most gun owners are law abiding and hence will not oppose this.
finally, we as a society need to get off this path of 'self destruction'. mental illness is not treated with pyschotic drugs - this only treats the profit needs of pharmaceuticals. we need to realize that our self absorbed, narcistic society is leading us astray. once we start dealing with this core issue and stop hating each other, then there will be no more 'powerless', 'frustrated', 'angry' people who feel the need to go out and kill innocent strangers.
if there are any 'true leaders' out there, please stand up and be heard.
Why would he need to bore it out?
AR-15's fire a .223/5.556x45mm cartridge. This cartridge was developed by Remington before the first Stoner "AR" rifles. Its initial purpose was for long range varmint (prarie dogs, ground squirells, etc) hunting. It is not the overwhelmingly powerful bullet you think it is. The average regular hunting rifle will accomplish far more damage, much more efficenly at farther distances than that cartridge. You are mis informed, and are just throwing another bucket of water on an already slippery slope of public disarmament.
Educate yourself before you attempt to educate others.
Kentucky, who is protecting us NOW? The police cannot be there before an incident occurs. Only those prepared to defend themselves can do so. It seems to me you are advocating that victims simply sacrifice themselves when confronted by an armed killer. Can you demonstrate that gun laws being proposed would have prevented Sandy Hook? Aurora? The man in Atlanta who was shot by a woman cowering in a crawl space as the intruder came toward her with a crowbar?
True, guns will not prevent every attack. True, psychotic people will still get guns. So will bad guys. The question is whether law-abiding citizens should be able to have a fighting chance to defend themselves. You seem to say they should not. I disagree.
Bottom line is, all law abiding U.S. Citizens should be equipped with a firearm at all times and in open site. If the majority of the country was legally allowed to open carry, I GUARANTEE that criminals would think twice about commiting violent crimes, knowing that their action will most likely cause them to meet their demise. Even if only a quarter of Americans started to carry a firearm in open view, I could easily foresee a rapid and massive reduction in our country's violent crime rate overall. My heart truely goes out the those poor children and families of Sandy Hook, and to all those whos lives were cut short due to the heinous and violent act of 1 or 2 deranged individual(s). But, why is it so hard for us to see how to end the violence and save lives. If only 1 person at that school or anywhere else that a shooting has taken place for that matter, had been carrying a firearm when some lowlife decided to go on a killing spree. Then the lives of many of these victims would still be here today because of 1 law abiding citizen, whos right to bear arms, was ready and willing to exercise his/her right in an effort to protect the lives of others and neutralize the treat. What most people don't realize is that the people carrying the weapons needed to protect us (hint... the police) do not arrive until after the crime has been committed. As a father of 2 young children ages 3 & 5, I fully support the arming of more Americans. Who knows, the lives of my children may one day be spared from violence, because some criminal was to scared to follow through with their crime, knowing that at anytime the tables could be turned on them by any nearby citizen. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM PEOPLE, THE PROBLEM IS NOT ENOUGH OF US ARE CARRYING THEM. Please pray for all the future victims whos lives will be taken to soon, because our right to self defense and self protection is slowly being stripped away from us. Think about it!
What a stupid comment.
a) in many of the cases shooter were mentally ill/suicidal. They would not give a paruka about your gun.
b) this would lead to even more frequent shootouts. In case of Gifford, there was "good guy with a gun". He almost shot the real hero who tackled the assassin.
c) I can go on and on. Looking over your arm, keeping hand on gun and shooting at anything that you are afraid of is not FREEDOM.
Rep123, your comment is the stupid one. How many times do you think a gun saved an innocent life? I bet you more times than an unarmed bystander. I do agree with the fact that mentally ill people will still attempt these mass shootings, but if an armed person is able to take them out first, then you can avoid another Newtown or Columbine.
I notice you make no mention of the lives saved by responsible citizens who drop criminals in their tracks trying to harm innocent people. You think LAWS are going to stop INSANE people? No. Guns stop insane people. Guns aren't the problem, people who want to harm people with any weapon are the problem. Drop them in their tracks. Problem solved like magic.
Im pro 2nd amendment rights but fighting guns with more guns is not the answer. I would hate to be at the mall or in a theater when someone came in with a gun and everyone pulls out their guns and starts shooting all that gun fire would probably kill more people than the original shooter. It sounds like a good idea in theory, I admit but there's just so much that can go wrong. I mean what happens when some trigger happy "good guy" mistakes a situation and just starts shooting? then someone else doesn't know hes the "good guy" and he starts shooting, then someone else starts, then no one even knows who to shoot at.
So to be clear, Rob, you think the reason the US has such a staggeringly high murder rate, by FAR the highest of all our first world peers, is because the US doesnt Have enough guns?
It horrifies me that people as stupid as you are allowed to breed.
Gaunt, do you truly believe that gun control laws will result in the bad guys giving up their guns? Do you think gun violence will end or be substantially reduced because of gun control laws? Can you prove this?
Can you assure anyone that the police will prevent home invasions such as in Atlanta? Do you contend that any proposed gun control law would have prevented Sandy Hook?
Seems the NRA had it right after all. You have to guard the schools first.
You mean you have to shoot the guards first... while they're drinking coffee and eating their morning donut.
If guns are taken away, law abidibg citizens will become victims of the criminal element. I live in a very bad section of town the response time for law enforcment is slow compared to the rich end of town. If somthing bad happens its up to me or my neigbors to take care of it. Taking guns away is stupid the crimminals will always have them. i can go down the block and buy drugs guns pretty much whatever I want thats not going to change by disarming citizens
ghetto, those drug guns likely originally came from gun stores just like your gun did. While disarming citizen might not be preferable, the way we freely arm criminals is insane.
I completely agree . Tighter gun laws will do nothing to stop the criminals from getting or owning a gun. It WILL stop the everyday citizen. We don't need more gun laws, but a stricter enforcement of the ones that we current my have. Also, if we would put more money in state mental health departments the people having issues may get the help they need before blowing up, losing control and causing a massacre. As for me, the government will have to pry my guns from my cold dead hands before I will give them up
deadpanic– Well said. I wonder how many of these gun control advocates also oppose the death penalty, even for those who murder with guns. It is the same liberal folks who say they hate gun violence but who always seem to side with criminal defendants when they get to court.
i live in pa and carry a . gun all the time and if any body would start shooting in a mall i would not hesitate for a moment to protect any one in harms way schools should have armed personel and better security. instead of spending 3 billon a month in afganistan spend it here
No doubt a fire fight in a shopping mall with amateurs like youself ( with childish hero fantasies) would result in even more death. You are part of the problem
When Jared Lee Loughner fired upon the crowd in Tucson AZ in 2011, nearly a quarter of the people in attendance were carrying concealed weapons. Do you know how many of them drew their guns and returned fire on this homicidal maniac? None of them. When the bullets are flying, the last thing a "hero" like you will do is attract the attention of a killer by pointing a gun at him. It ensures that the next shot he fires will be at you while you are trembling like a leaf and wetting your pants.
If someone starts shooting at a mall or a school and 15 people pull guns, in all the confusion, don't you think it's just barely possible that someone is going to mistake one of the "heroes" as the bad guy? It would just be chaos. Gun Nuts – Skulls like concrete – nothing seems to get through.
Ignore the morons who don't realize people are saved everyday by citizens carrying concealed weapons. It's not about being a hero, it's about dropping animals in their tracks when they mean harm to innocent people. It's about being able to protect your family from someone that doesn't give one care to your silly proposed law 'solutions'. I feel bad for your family when someone breaks into your home. After you hear that door crash down, you'll be changing your mind very quickly. Oh wait, just wait the 10 minutes for police to respond, they'll be there to tag the bodies.
having a gun in your home to protect you and your family is one thing. You guys seem to think it would be best if everyone in public were all armed so they could be heroes if someone starting shooting! Im pro guns but thats a scary thought, i dont wanna be caught in the crossfire. it sounds good in theory..good guy shoots bad guy and saves the day, but if everyone is armed the lines between good guy and bad guy are very blurred. I dont know theres no easy answer but more guns is not the answer, I know people with concealed permits that wanna pull their guns out every time they feel the least bit threatened and probably would make someone start shooting bc they thought they were the "bad guy"
Just remember, when you shoot me in the crossfire. I hope you get put to death for "saving me".
Every school should hire an ex drill sergeant to deal with the marginal kids. If you can get past the hard act, they're pretty artful in dealing with troubled youth.
since this is happening right now, it's something else to be considered: SanBernardino CA just went bankrupt, the crime, killings, looting has skyrocketed. the city officials asked it's citizens to lock their doors and arm themselves – the city could not be counted on to respond. Many many cities of CA are bankrupt. illegals make up more then half of the population – illegals have set up corrupt network to drain the system (or citizens) – and bring their cartel crime to US. right now our President warns on a daily basis America is on a fiscal cliff. And of course the US has trillions of debt. AND illegals are overtaking OR, WA, MI, IL, on on on. I would not count on any government protecting your family if what is happening in CA happens in your home town. they won't.
American's can take action to stop some of the crime and invasion:
Join Numbers USA. They are for ENFORCING our immigration laws, lowering the work visas, anchor babies, mandatory use of e-verify, etc. They rate each candidate on immigration issues and they have free faxes that you can send to the White House, your Congress & Representatives. It’s easy & free, please join!!!
Check out Numbers USA.
Feel free to repost.
lol...ok...white kid kills white kids in a white kids school...how is this an inmigration problem!...you d-umb White!
STFU and go mow my lawn.
Illegals make up half the Ca population? Ignorance
As soon as a posse member kills an unarmed stupid student and the lawsuit results, that will be done. Our school district has had for many years its own police department (certified). When I was an LEO in Utah we had an officer assigned to each school. When I was in HS we had nothing and needed nothing. So bottom line is that something is wrong with the way we are raising kids now. We as a generation have created a generation of children that solve everything through violence and lack social skills due to doing nothing but tweeting and texting. Students who get extensions for college assignments to prevent them from possibly harming a professor when they get made, parents who take the side of the student and go after the teacher, parents who fist fight at little league games. Where is the problem? The generation that raised this one
Well Nat, out here in L.A. things are a bit different. Mainly due to that immigration problem CA has that no one seems to recognize. I went thru HS back in 87-89 and I did not need anything either. Mainly because I am a fairly likeable guy and got along with almost everyone. However, at least 50% of the Senior class was packing at all times. Either in their car or on their person. Gang violence was rampant and still is to some extent. It was not uncommon to be sitting at the Friday night football game and have a rival teams fans spray the opposing crowd with bullets. My best friend got jumped and held at gunpoint by 11 gang members while walking home after school because he walked thru a wide open public park. Another friend had three bullets fired into his fender while sitting in his car in the school parking lot because some other group didn't like that his car looked better or something stupid like that. We as kids all attended the local street races each weekend. Never had a cop come by at all. Then the gangs started coming in and people were getting shot because they won a race. Cops eventually broke up the races for good. It's not quite as bad now but the main reason it slowed down at all was because we all finally started shooting back. Criminals don't like resistance so they tend to go elsewhere...
Yes you are!
This is the same thing I suggested that should be done about 2 – 3 weeks ago. We had armed personel, cameras, and police patrols at our high school and it was never an issue. They also had K-9 units do random locker inspections for drugs, weapons, and contraband as well. The private security forces handled most of the "stupid teenager fights" without incident too. Meanwhile the gang violence and drugs at the other highschool down the road were out of hand. At one point the building got shot up and tagged during the weekend. I was scared to go there for an elective class.
That was over 12 years ago when they implemented it after the Columbine Shootings.
High School? Sounds more like you were in jail?
Interestingly enough the guy that designed the building also designed Texas prisons, lol. The security aspect was not an iinvasive part of my educational experience, just something that we all knew was there. I didn't exactly live on the best side of the town but the school was only a couple years old and cost millions to build. When I first attended, I was part of the second or third class to ever graduate in it. It was a nice school and it was well funded. They had a lot of expensive learning equipment in there.
Lot's of students too buy the year 2000 so there was plenty to protect.
*by
The fallacy in the idea of arming people at schools is simply that the shooter will go to some other place where people congregate, such as shopping malls, etc. We have to deal with the proliferation of guns and the gun and violence culture.
In that case, are you suggesting we should we do as Britain has done and disarm our police officers as well? You see how well that worked out? That doesn't make sense...
Where do all you morons gun-loving morons come from?
Some of us come from military and/or law enforcement backgrounds. Where were you hatched?
Us "morons" come from households that raised us to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our rights. We were introduced to guns through either hunting or sport at young ages. We learned how firearms are handled in the safest manner possible while still respecting the fact that they were extremely dangerous weapons. Plus, most of us "morons" went on to serve our country or protect people like you through law enforcement. Seems like the real moron here is the person that doesn't know anything about firearm safety, hates guns, but still demands the sacrifice of others to put their life on the line for them. Hmmm.
We're protecting our families from the animals that commit crimes regardless of any law put in place to prevent it. We understand the simple concept that laws are unable to prevent things like this. You on the other hand, are standing there with the phone in your hand helplessly watching someone hurt your family. Good luck with the 10 minute response time provided by the police. At least they'll be there to tag the bodies!
Beware,Bullies you are being targeted,if you keep it up, this wimp is going to eliminate you,he will do 4 years as he is a minor,or less,Tyranny is not the word,just plain survival a the kid goes to school and is assaulted robbed and degraded in front of people.Teachers should target these deviants and make a list ,they are there in the hallways in class,Teachers can and help stop these happenings just by targetting these and reporting these hasles,dont arm teachers.
Let me answer a few of your statements, as a teacher we do stop children from bullying...all the time. Unfortunately like a fomous refere once said. I call em as I see em, and that rings true for teaching and idetifying aggresif behaviour with our students. So there you have it.
Evidently tomtheteacher does not teach English. Alternatively, tomtheteacher has a terrible smartphone.
After your response tomtheteacher, there is no doubt as to why America sits so low on the education list...
Politicians calling for the confiscation of guns have forgotten they were elected to serve in a nation in which they enjoy certain rights and privileges that were only secured because men were willing to stand on a hill outside of Lexington and Concord and use those guns.
Did the Redcoats have AK47s? Must have missed that day in history class.
Good point. I think I see the light now. . . let’s make it illegal to manufacture, possess, or sell all guns except muskets. –Because criminals follow the law and criminals won’t be able to acquire guns. Criminals will probably see a sign on a door that says, “No guns allowed,” and think “I can’t rob this place, they don’t allow guns inside.” I’ve arrested people in possession of stolen firearms and I’ve arrested felons in possession of firearms. They scoff at any and all firearms laws. Laws do not stop criminals. An armed and prepared person ready to visit violence on the criminal is the only thing that stops a violent criminal determined to hurt someone else.
Well put j.cook – at least some of us still have common sense. Thank you for that well written response, hats off to you sir.
Sigh. How are AK47's responsible for someone that wants to harm another human being again? You think taking away one harmful object or even a few of them will actually solve this problem? Can you use logic? At all?
No, automatic guns were not invented yet. Neither was steam engine, telephone, computer, etc. If they were I'm sure General Washington would of used all of this against the Crown.
Remember what happened to the American Indian and his bow & arrow, when the white man came over here w/his guns, swords, canons? We took their land & way of life, because the American Indian was unarmed. That's what happens when people w/guns meet people w/out guns.
Also you put a lot of faith in a government that keeps giving you the shaft, while they keep the gold! You anti-gun people are like livestock going to slaughter. Keep lining up, your day will come.......
Luckily, they did not forget that happened over 230 years ago and is a ridiculous argument to not change laws
So let me guess every other right needs to be banned or restricted because it's outdated? Wow. Just... Wow!
The right of free speech is limited by reasonable rules (no can't shout fire in a crowded theatre, libel and slander laws, etc.); the right of assembly is limited for public safety and related reasons; there are countless reasonable restrictions on various rights for common sense reasons that do not infringe upon those rights in the context of a civilized society. How can it be said that having to register a gun is an infringement on the ownership of the gun? How many people own a car that is not registered with the State DMV?
The issuance of a driver's license and operation of a motor vehicle is not a right secured by the Bill of Rights.
Obama OKs lifetime Secret Service for presidents
4:19 PM, Jan 10, 2013
by David Jackson, USA TODAY
http://news.cincinnati.com/usatoday/article/1823961
Okay for them, but NOT YOUR CHILDREN
Silly point, when you get elected to represent 300 million people, and the most powerful military, and largest economy in history, we'll get you and your family armed guards. Till then stop whining, you don't rate it. Your just another citizen. learn to protect yourself and stop whining about with the POTUS gets.
Arpaio is a true law enforcement officer. We need many more of him throughout the country....hes the John Wayne of the 21st century.
Not sure if consistent abuse of power is really a model to follow.
I haven't heard anyone talk about this, but what happens when you "ban" these guns and another shooting happens? What will you think or do then, because it will happen again reguardless of what law is passed. I think there is going to be a lot of shattered illusions out there.
No, they will ban more guns, and than switch to banning knives.
Then they will start banning sticks and rocks. As many people have already said in different words, what we have in the United States is not a gun problem. It's a people problem. If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.
I have a lot of old,and fat,and old fat teachers who have little interest in teaching in my schools in the neighborhood.
It's laughable to think of them bodyslamming a gunman LMAO.So know if ypu wanna be a teacher,you have to know kung-fu and ninjustu lol
While I understand the rush/need for armed personnel in the school...who is going to pay for it? Why cannot parents who are not working or take certain days off to volunteer in their children's school. This country is going broke because people want someone else to do it or someone else to pay for it.
With that being said, if someone without children would like to volunteer then that is fabulous but the parents need to start taking an ACTIVE role in their children's lives. I'm tired of hearing about how busy parents are. Make children your #1 priority if they are that important.
WHAT! Us be responsable for our kids and ourselves, surly you jest.
I know! What a concept!
While I agree that we need more parent involvement, we don't need parent with gun involvement.
That is the dumbest statement.I have a very active role in my kids life.....I also work all day to give him everything he needs. I have to work to not only put food on the table for my son, but also Millions of Americans who chose not to work or do not want too becuase they have me to support them. So, before you start saying that we are less of parents becuase we don't stand in front of our kids school all day, think of the ones out there that work 2 and 3 jobs to give their kids what they need.
What the kids need are more love and affection and a lot of displine, not mommy working three jobs so she can buy little Johnny more of toys and gadgets, its propbley not because he is going hungry. Kids are controling this country now, you cant despline them, speak to them or even look at them thses days, and they know it, and they use it every day to get THIER way. Let the child learn that life is tough and he/she is only one human among billions and is not special in any way. I'm amazed that the human race has made it this for considering how stupid we are.
CNN on television just lied openly about gun sales at gun shows. It is illegal to sell any resricted weapon without the proper process. The gun shows are huge gatherings of police, FBI, all kinds of alphabet soup of agency employees, gun owners, enthusiasts, collectors and everyday people.
Most every gun that is sold at a gun show is sold to or though a dealer when required by type of weapon. There are sales between private parties, not affiliated with the gun show....people who meet there and "hook up" and make trades or sales. This has nothing to do with thegun show.
CNN just lied and stated that 40% of all gun sales at gun shows are illegal sales without background checks. At least that was the implication. it is and was a bald faced lie. Just a few minutes before the president of the NRA was asked about that number. he stated that if there are any illegal sales they are private sales between individuals. That gun show transfers happen using dealers licenese as required. He agreed that there could be a number of sales..although unknown in number and there is no way to say...he agreed that it could approach 10% at times. Never 40%./
CNN, may your money stop comming in, may you rsponsers, leave you, and may you be the firt to be harmed by the liberal crap you spew!
In Pittsburgh, you can buy a can, know the right person, and have a concealed weapons permit that day.
I know, because I did it. Get real.
In Florida, you go to a show, take a class that day, and you have a concealed weapons permit. So I think its you
that's not being realistic.
You are a liar. I live in Florida and after you take the class there is a whole package that has to be submitted to the state, which takes a minimum a month to review. You live in a reality tv world and create a fictional life. All concealed carry permits require some sort of background check and are definitely not issued that same day.
That's CNN's M.O. to lie and stretch and twist facts to their satisfaction. After all, they are heavily subsidized by the elite global machine.
Sanity your comparison is not an apples to apples comparison. Keenesaw with a population of 29 thousand and Chicago 2.7 million. A small town like Keenesaw is not going to suffer from all the social issues that are suffered in a large city Like Chicago. So 4 murders in 30,000 is 1 in 10,000are murderd Keenesaw and Chicgo is 1 in 5,400 is really nothing to brag about. Nice try though and thanks for palying.
(Laughter)
So you claim that CNN lied about gun statistics, and as your evidence you quote a dissenting opinion by the President of the NRA? Thats your 'source'?
So, you're saying that CNN lied because the NRA said so?
im just curious why the average suspect of a mass murder in America is upper-middle class Caucasian kids.
parenting? oh no, thats nonsense.
I'm OK with armed guards in schools. However, require the parents of the students to cover the costs. It's not the responsibility of the taxpayers.
You DARE put a price on the safety of the little children?????????? Go to Sandy Hook and look at the bloodied mangeled body of a seven year-old ans say it to the face of the grieveing parents that you don't care bout their little angels cause it you would rather spend your money on netflix then keep the kids alive!!!
Look, I'm truly sorry about what happened as I'm sure everyone with a heart is, but the fact is WE are not responsable for the pay and upkeep of anyone's else's kids. We already give them free school and parents get tax breaks that people without kids don't get. So, if you have them then you should pay for them and stop thinking it is someone else's responsabilty.
Sam Jack, you are a moron. I wouldn't pay $1 of my taxes for school security. Shove it up your butt and YOU pay for it. Some kids lives are NO important than my life, not even one little bit. I have guns, but I will NOT pay for guns for someone else. Sell your own house and give the money to your local school you fool, lol.
What a load of garbage, SJ. They aren't MY kids. Since you're preaching so adamantly, you obviously think someone else should be paying to protect your kids. What a hypocrite.
Wow, those are some selfish comments. Children can't fend for themselves, and many are not lucky enough to be born to involved or even adequate parents. D@#% right I'll give some of my tax money to help protect and support them, and if you use arguments such as "Well, they aren't MY kids" it's clear you are part of the problem with modern culture. Stop being so self-centered and worried about yourselves all the time and maybe we'd actually see some positive changes in our society...let alone evolving humanity to the next stage where we don't have to WORRY about children being destroyed in gunfire.
I may not have children however I would rather have my tax money go to protecting children than say paying for some deadbeat looser to sit at home all day and watch soap operas or reruns of judge Judy....or especially rather than having it used by Eric Holder to put Illegal firearms into the hands of the Mexican Cartels....(Oh wait too soon?)......speaking of which why is the Attorney General of Illegal Arms deals on the gun control committee?....That is like putting Jerry Sandusky in charge or the Boy Scouts of America....(Oh too soon again?)
As much as you may not like it, yes, there is a price on life. Think of the sick who does not have money to pay for treatement, what about insurance companies that sell you life insurance. What about the blood money that people get when they sue someone for an accident and then brag about how much they got. Sorry, but their always a price and I'm sure they will be law suits in CT as well but they will say its not about the money while holding out their hand.
Yes, it is our responsibility as taxpayers. When you dictate how children must be educated, attempt to force parents to put their kids into government run schools, then it is fully the government's responsibility to use any amount of tax money to pay to make sure those kids don't die on campus. Want parents to be fully responsible? (like they should be) Leave education in their hands (homeschool or they can choose private schools where they would be responsible for fully funding anything the school needed/wanted). Otherwise, give up all the money necessary to educate and protect our kids.
I agree. The cost should not be covered by tax payers. It should be covered by gun industry. For everyman killed, the manufacturer should be charged for compensation.
I could go with that argument on payment if all schools would financially compensate anyone who received a subpar education that affected their futures (college life, job outlook, etc). Think of all the kids that can barely read that would have better lives with the school system paying for their part in that event. It's not the gun companies fault if someone abuses their products. If it was we would had a world of people getting payments from all sorts of companies (all pharmaceuticals, knives – including table knives and steak knives, bats, alcohol, mouthwash, automobiles, glass, every food company, and the list goes on) and who do we sue for rocks, sticks, and the like?
It IS the school's job to protect children while they are in their care and custody. It's not anyone's fault other than the user if someone abuses an object in any way (meaning uses a gun to murder another person, or any of the objects above to hurt, harm, or abuse another person or themselves).
I wish someone in plain English would explain to me how another law would have or will stop this killing. Muder is already illegal and there is already hundreds of millions of guns in the hands of the next person who wants to do this kind of thing. Someone right now is probley sitting at home thinking of the next "gun free zone" while half of America is arguing and waiting for the government to protect them.
No difference than enacting a "no texting while driving" law when there is already a distracted driving law. It is a feel good measure for stupid people and stupid politicians.
We should also disband "No-Murder Law" because people do not follow this law and kill anyways. It is also a "Feel Good Law" right? Stupid NRA logic.
Gun Free Zone = Killing Field
that simple.
Seriously? There were armed guards at Columbine. Armed citizens at the Giffords shooting (one of whom almost shot the wrong 'suspect'). The logic that more guns equals less shootings is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.
Take any geographic area in the US (urban, rural, black, white, whatever) and compare it with a comparable geography in any other developed nation and you will fine less gun crime. Period.
That simple. It certainly sounds like you are!
Ok Captain Canada, lets look at Keenesaw Ga, since 1982 they have had a law requiring all households to have a firearm and ammo. Since then they have FOUR murders, 3 of which were in a 'GUN FREE ZONE' where the law abiding citizens were PROHIBITED from carrying their firearms to defend against the CRIMINAL who 'suprisingly' did not care about the law.
Compare this to Chicago and D.C......Extremely strict gun controls preventing law abiding citizens from having firearms, but the CRIMINALS dont seem to have a problem with that, as their crime and gun violence rates are super high.
Now explain to me how these examples show gun restrictions making people safer.
Sanity, your point would be more valid if you stopped lying.
Firstly, Keenesaw, Georgia has had 17 murders since 1982, not 4.
Still, you might say, Just 17? Compare that to DC or Chicago as sanity says! Oh but wait: Keenesaw has 28,000 people in the entire county. Its a village. So maybe comparing that to Chicago would be stupid.
Oh Sanity, listen carefully. Sure, compare a sleepy village in rural Georgia to a metropolis like Chicago, just like the NRA does on a daily basis so their blind sheep will mindlessly follow them. Now, take that sleepy village in rural Georgia and compare it to a SIMILAR sleepy village in Canada and you will find that in comparison, your 'safe' little American village will seem like a warzone. 17 murders since 1982 in a town of 28,000? That's freaking insane! Wake up! More guns equals more crime and murder. It does not help the problem.
Now...off to Walmart you go where you can walk around with your gun on your hip and feel like John Wayne.
Isnt America great? Look how far we have come! Yeah USA!
Obama Bin Biden could not even organize Chicago, and they want to make decisions that affect others? lol
YOu sir are an idiot
I know it is buring you inside. But like it or not, Obama is the president. Get use to it!
Our school usually keeps all of the classroom doors locked almost all of the time. It feels the same because we usually keep the doors closed anyways.